PC Principal thread

[EternityEnd]

I'm barely in my mid-20s. I'm fairly immersed in some pretty damn liberal corners of the internet, and I've spent a good portion my years in CA/NYC.

I honestly think you're greatly overestimating the portion of younger people who adhere to these specific alleged far left ideas. I've literally never heard of people wanting to erase gender. Break down certain arbitrary limitations, usually on females, absolutely -- that's common. Understand, expand, whatever them? Sure. But not erase the concepts. Indeed, the idea contradicts the author's previous assertion that there are dozens of new genders, which is also a complete misread of the list he linked.

It reads to me like the author's own misunderstandings inform his hyperbolized view of a portion of people/concepts he's only just familiar enough with to lampoon, but not critically analyze. Regardless, how these ideas relate to the current democratic party is completely incomparable to the GOP's continued radicalization.

We'll probably have to agree to disagree.

[Yuri-G]

Simply put:

Exactly. This is why the uber-left model of berating the world into acceptance isn't going to work. People don't like change and that's normal. There's nothing wrong with being resistant to change; it's a common trait among human beings. You get better results when you acknowledge that fact and work with it instead of against it.


Fuck, deep down I'm still bothered by trans people. I'm self-aware enough to acknowledge that and to continually challenge my own bigoted viewpoint, but on an internal level it bugs me because it's not what I'm used to - I don't get it (but I don't have to). That's just life as a human being.

[Fiye]

Its basically an extension of trying to destroy the roles gender plays in society. Some people don't identify as a women even though their reproductive organs are that.

But then again we're dealing with conservatives who'll refer chelsea manning as bradley manning and I don't give a flying fuck who you are you don't fucking pull that shit on someone who's transgender.

[Galkaeater]

"How can one be attracted to the same sex? It's unnatural, because I'm not!"

Society always takes time to adapt and accept things to which they can't personally relate, but others experience.

You didn't even understand the question that was being asked. It's a pretty fundamental one about knowledge, how does one find their 'gender'? What tools are used to test and gain this knowledge. You brought up homosexuality under the impression that its the same but it's not one can gain knowledge of their sexuality based on who or what they are aroused by similar to how one knows what foods they like by eating and tasting them. I just don't understand how one gains knowledge of their supposed gender.

[Fiye]

You didn't even understand the question that was being asked. It's a pretty fundamental one about knowledge, how does one find their 'gender'? What tools are used to test and gain this knowledge. You brought up homosexuality under the impression that its the same but it's not one can gain knowledge of their sexuality based on who or what they are aroused by similar to how one knows what foods they like by eating and tasting them. I just don't understand how one gains knowledge of their supposed gender.

I don't either but one day for me it clicked. Maybe when I don't have to worry about politicians making bills that make my life harder I'll go further with it. Right now TX is trying to pass a bathroom bill but it had to get watered down to make it out of the legislature but it doesn't meet the requirements the Lt. Government wanted.

http://lifeinaggro.com/2016/11/27

[EternityEnd]

You didn't even understand the question that was being asked. It's a pretty fundamental one about knowledge, how does one find their 'gender'? What tools are used to test and gain this knowledge. You brought up homosexuality under the impression that its the same but it's not one can gain knowledge of their sexuality based on who or what they are aroused by similar to how one knows what foods they like by eating and tasting them. I just don't understand how one gains knowledge of their supposed gender.

I understood you entirely, and my comparison stands. Sexuality is, after all, just a "feeling." It's a response, and reproducible, yeah, but it's still an amorphous concept many can't grasp. (See: bisexuality deniers.)

Before homosexuality was widely accepted or even known of by some more ignorant vestiges of society, it wouldn't be an unreasonable question of "how could one possibly be attracted to the same sex?" With modern tools we can measure erogenous response to visual stimuli, but even that's imperfect.

If one feels trapped inside a body they can't physically relate to, to such a breaking point of killing themselves, then who are we to doubt this cognitive dissonance? Something's clearly going on neurologically at that point, it's not just theatrics or exceptionalism. It's a relatively new phenomenon to gain mainstream acknowledgement, so I don't know if/how it would be empirically measured. Does it need to be? Are we incapable of empathizing with their struggles in the abstract?

[Rooney]

You didn't even understand the question that was being asked. It's a pretty fundamental one about knowledge, how does one find their 'gender'? What tools are used to test and gain this knowledge. You brought up homosexuality under the impression that its the same but it's not one can gain knowledge of their sexuality based on who or what they are aroused by similar to how one knows what foods they like by eating and tasting them. I just don't understand how one gains knowledge of their supposed gender.

For me it's a lot like going to an art exhibit/museum. You like certain pieces, you don't like others. You don't know the precise reason why. But over time and with enough exposure, common themes become apparent. You like certain colors, you don't like certain compositions. You won't necessarily dismiss a piece immediately, but you have a fairly good idea of if you'll like it or not. Gender is the same way for me. It's something you back into instead of defining outright. Over time as you define what it isn't, you get a pretty good idea of what it is to you.

[Greatguardian]

I mean, xenomilia and BIID may be recently coined terms but people feeling trapped in their own body or that a part of their body is foreign and not-them is hardly new in medicine. It's just treated differently when the thing people feel is foreign is their genitals. Science isn't nearly as objective as people would like to believe.

[Fiye]

Because a combination of surgery and medicine can make one's body appear differently thus negating that feeling?

[Greatguardian]

Because a combination of surgery and medicine can make one's body appear differently thus negating that feeling?

Are you replying to me? Eh. In cases of xenomilia that aren't associated with gender dysmorphia, I'm sure the same may be true. That doesn't mean doctors are in much of a rush to amputate limbs or cause paralysis.

[Yuri-G]

For me it's a lot like going to an art exhibit/museum. You like certain pieces, you don't like others. You don't know the precise reason why. But over time and with enough exposure, common themes become apparent. You like certain colors, you don't like certain compositions. You won't necessarily dismiss a piece immediately, but you have a fairly good idea of if you'll like it or not. Gender is the same way for me. It's something you back into instead of defining outright. Over time as you define what it isn't, you get a pretty good idea of what it is to you.

This is a really good explanation and I like it.

[Gredival]

I don't think he's arguing that the issue is knowing one's gender, it's a question of how does one assess a label to one's gender. You can know that your gender is comprised of say, traits W X Y Z and not traits A B C D, ultimately you are going to create a short-hand label for that. But nothing about those traits necessarily tells you if your gender is the short-hand label of male or female (for simplicity's sake, leave other possibilities aside for the moment).

Defining oneself in relation to the composite traits that comprise our gender requires designating certain traits as male and other traits as female, but how do we make that determination? That's the point of the question "How do you know you feel like a woman if you have never been a woman?" but it's also fair to ask "How do you know what you feel is because you're a man if you've also never been a woman?" In other words, without the ability to compare and contrast you can't say that certain aspects of your gender are male and other are female.

Theoretically the answer is that we have some innate sense of what sorts of things are masculine and what things are feminine.

[Gryffes]

So this caused some nonsense on the intertubes.



They found out who the guy asking the question was and kicked him out for being "Transphobic".

lol.

[Fiye]

But the Memes. They're good memes!

[Zetanio]

So this caused some nonsense on the intertubes.



They found out who the guy asking the question was and kicked him out for being "Transphobic".

lol.

Edgelord central.

[Niiro]

[dasva]

But traps and trans aren't the same thing...

[Gryffes]

But traps and trans aren't the same thing...

There were trans people making this point on twitter.... they were accused of suffering internalized transphobia and attacked.

[thetruepandagod]

I don't think he's arguing that the issue is knowing one's gender, it's a question of how does one assess a label to one's gender. You can know that your gender is comprised of say, traits W X Y Z and not traits A B C D, ultimately you are going to create a short-hand label for that. But nothing about those traits necessarily tells you if your gender is the short-hand label of male or female (for simplicity's sake, leave other possibilities aside for the moment).

Defining oneself in relation to the composite traits that comprise our gender requires designating certain traits as male and other traits as female, but how do we make that determination? That's the point of the question "How do you know you feel like a woman if you have never been a woman?" but it's also fair to ask "How do you know what you feel is because you're a man if you've also never been a woman?" In other words, without the ability to compare and contrast you can't say that certain aspects of your gender are male and other are female.

Theoretically the answer is that we have some innate sense of what sorts of things are masculine and what things are feminine.

Am I wrong in my belief that the author was proposing the idea that within the LGBTQ+ community there are incompatible beliefs? While some seek the erasure of gender norms others use them as the basis for how they choose to see their gender, using these stereotypical norms of female/male traits and interests as guide stones for their identity. If gender and gender related traits do not exist than how can one be a trans anything? A trans woman could not be a woman if there were not any identifiers that would denote her a woman or lead anyone to belief her as such, so for a person to identity as such there must be something that is female. But at the same time throughout history these identifiers do oftentimes change and are more social constructs than anything inherent, such as pink being a masculine color up until the 1930's. This is of course ignoring the relatively immutable brain differences we have come to see between the genders generally.

As for this ambiguous 'left' the author blames, it's safe to say that for the left he lumps in the worst of militant PC culture,tumble,antifa and the inverse would of course be kkk,4chan for a more left leaning author. There are no moderates in examples of the opposition on the internet!

[Tarage]

Not sure if this completely relates to the topic at hand, but I felt like telling it because I guess I consider myself one of them there white cis males you hear so much about.

So, I went camping this weekend. The campground has two bathrooms which are essentially just toilets above a giant shit holding tank. There's a men's and a women's, but they're the same thing. Anyway, a dude I was camping with but didn't know very well left the women's while I was walking up. I asked him if he had accidentally gone in the wrong one and after some confusion he simply said while walking away "I'm a chick dude". Now, there was zero outside indication that he was. Dude had a beard, wore typical dude clothes, and acted like a dude. I had no way of knowing. I took it at face value though.

Later on in the car ride home I asked my friend for clarification. I asked because he has some friends that hang out at parties that are in various stages of transition from both sides. I asked if he actually was or was just fucking with me, and found out it was the latter, and realized that since both bathrooms were the same, gender didn't really matter. So it goes.

I guess my point is that there has been so much lately in the realm of gender and sex that actually figuring this shit out is incredibly hard. You can no longer look at a person and know if they are what they appear to be, or are something else. And even then, there are mixes of all things under the sun. I don't really care what people are or want to be, but the ambiguity does make it quite hard to figure out how to treat someone, especially for someone like me who has enough troubles with that to begin with. I'm often times afraid of even asking because I worry that what I say is going to be taken the wrong way, and that's not at all my goal. And I feel like I'm not alone in feeling this way. What I'm trying to say is I agree that once you muddle things so completely that anyone can be anything, you completely lose objectivity and suddenly no one knows how to act at all. If I know, I can adjust accordingly, but if you make it increasingly hard for me to know while at the same time taking offense to my attempts to know, then what's the fucking point?