PC Principal thread

[Melena]

ya we enslaved people for hundreds of years and have had a handful of genocides but a couple of dumbasses getting uppity about christmas is truly the end for us

Actually, the fact that people outright hunt for things to get offended about and causing a shit storm is pretty fucking bad. I'm waiting for the day someone tells me they are offended because I'm a white male.

[Xajii]

Actually, the fact that people outright hunt for things to get offended about and causing a shit storm is pretty fucking bad.

haha isnt that what ur doing right now

[Melena]

I'm not offended. As an asshole though I'm depressed as there is no joy now in it. Existing is enough for someone to get offended. If George carlin was alive, he would be weeping.

[Gredival]

ya we enslaved people for hundreds of years and have had a handful of genocides but a couple of dumbasses getting uppity about christmas is truly the end for us

I for one am actually much more afraid of the stupidity wielding the PC cudgel than I am of conventional (yet still horrible) abuses of power that elites have always wielded.

Look into the research about censorship; sometimes an environment that is "chilling" to free speech is much worse than a government that is outright hostile to it. This is your basic 1984 vs. Brave New World scenario. When you're young, or of libertarian slant, you might think that Big Brother is more horrible. But academic critics have always found Brave New World much more compelling because The World State is both much more horrifying and tracks the development of actual history much more accurately. True power is when your enemies don't even know you have it.

[Andalusian girls]

The Atlantic just ran a fine double-feature on the Yale incident and the cultural climate that spawned it. i suspect the former will be the one more well-received in this place (and is the more substantive piece) but both are worth the read. the former details the weaponization of offense and its use to stifle free speech as well as explores the potential psychological damage engendered by the reverberations of such promiscuous application, the latter asks us to remain cognizant that these incidents do not exist in an egalitarian utopia but in the backdrop of an American society still struggling to come to terms with and advance beyond a deeply prejudicial past

The New Intolerance of Student Activism

It ought to be disputed rather than indulged for the sake of these students, who need someone to teach them how empowered they are by virtue of their mere enrollment; that no one is capable of invalidating their existence, full stop; that their worth is inherent, not contingent; that everyone is offended by things around them; that they are capable of tremendous resilience; and that most possess it now despite the disempowering ideology foisted on them by well-intentioned, wrongheaded ideologues encouraging them to imagine that they are not privileged.

These students were offended by one person’s words, and were free to offer their own words in turn. That wasn’t enough for them, so they spat on different people who listened to those words and called one minority student a traitor to his race. In their muddled ideology, the Yale activists had to destroy the safe space to save it.

The Vilification of Student Activists at Yale

Like many elite schools, Yale has a tense racial past and present, one that ensures that admission isn’t necessarily synonymous with full social acceptance. The reports of recent incidents, like swastikas painted on campus, or a frat turning black girls away from a party, are surely only a few examples where some students are implicitly told that they are less welcome than their classmates.

Is there room to question and criticize Yale’s position on potentially offensive Halloween costumes and all of the subsequent responses? Absolutely. But at most, the disagreement over Halloween costumes was simply the tipping point for students of color. Their protests, remarks, and actions, however controversial they may be, make clear that they have felt unsupported and unwelcome.

[Roranora]

our worth is inherent, not contingent, and we are capable of tremendous resilience


Can that just resonate across the country real quick?

[archibaldcrane]

our worth is inherent, not contingent, and we are capable of tremendous resilience


Can that just resonate across the country real quick?

Not when you follow it with

"wrongheaded ideologues encouraging them to imagine that they are not privileged."

Denial of the existence of white privilege is absurd.

[Roranora]

In no way does hoping to empower PoC deny the existence of white privilege, but I suppose that's par for the thread.

The author even says that they possess it now despite the disempowering ideology.. as they're Yale admittees, well ahead of the curve.

edit: claryfing

[Andalusian girls]

A misreading, he was stating students of an Ivy League university are intrinsically privileged (by any rational definition of the word) relative to the general population, not denying the existence of white privilege

[BerenTebogo]

A misreading, he was stating students of an Ivy League university are intrinsically privileged relative to the general population, not denying the existence of white privilege

This is how I read it as well. Being at Yale is a pretty hefty privilege no matter where you come from.

[archibaldcrane]

A misreading, he was stating students of an Ivy League university are intrinsically privileged relative to the general population (by any rational definition of the word), not denying the existence of white privilege

No, I think you're doing the misreading. Privilege is not a monolith, it's not "you either have it or you don't", and saying that all ivy grads simply have it, and anyone saying that a black ivy league student lacks it is wrongheaded, is a (likely intentional) misrepresentation of the concept.

I guarantee you that no one is suggesting that Ivy League students lack the privilege of access to quality education - and that is the avenue in which they all are privileged.

When in 2014 a black person with a college degree is 79% more likely to be unemployed than a white person with a college degree, simply having the privilege of higher education does not make one "universally privileged".

[Andalusian girls]

well definitionally i'm not misreading it if the supposed affected misrepresentation is how i viewed it but nice attempt at a pithy riposte

but i strongly suspect you have not read the article in question and are merely leaping to offense over one objectionable clause, if you had you would have borne witness to the following paragraph which begins

Here’s one of the ways that white men at Yale are most privileged of all:

[archibaldcrane]

That paragraph suggests that these students are privileged because they are highly educated. That is true, when speaking solely about education.

I guarantee that no one is telling them they do not have the privilege of a fine education, and suggesting it's wrongheaded to point out areas in which they do not have privilege (since they go to an Ivy) is a flaming strawman.

[NynJa]

I would have spelled the name wrong on purpose.

This is why I couldn't work at Starbucks, I would spell everyone's name wrong on purpose.

You know its a marketing ploy right? "Omg lol look starbucks spelled my name wrong", then they post a picture of the misspelled name on insta and fb. So starbucks got paid 5 dollars for a 2 dollar coffee and 3 bucks to be advertized.

[Andalusian girls]

no one is suggesting racial discrimination does not exist in the job market other than the fevered homunculus in your cerebellum, but as you haven't read the article in question what use is there in engaging you over it

for whatever it's worth black graduates from an elite university are slightly more likely than white graduates from less prestigious universities to receive employment opportunities, therefore these poc Yale graduates are very likely to be at or above the 70th percentile (Bachelor's over non) when it comes to employment and earnings and the like, which obviously does not protect them from the inherited wealth deficit or the daily prejudice of taxi drivers but it is not so unenviable a position to be in relative to most

[archibaldcrane]

And the following paragraph is hilarious bullshit - I'm a white guy, and the "privilege" described in that paragraph is maybe the 1 millionth best thing about being white lol. It's like the author doesn't have any idea how awesome being white is.

[archibaldcrane]

no one is suggesting racial discrimination does not exist in the job market other than the fevered homunculus in your cerebellum, but as you haven't read the article in question what use is there in engaging you over it

And the people who are racially discriminated against lack the privileges of those races who are not. Pointing this out is not wrongheaded, period.

[archibaldcrane]

In no way does hoping to empower PoC deny the existence of white privilege, but I suppose that's par for the thread.

The author even says that they possess it now despite the disempowering ideology.. as they're Yale admittees, well ahead of the curve.

edit: claryfing

Possess what?

[Andalusian girls]

you've obsessed over one clause that mentions privilege to pillory a 3500 word article that is more empathetic to and supportive of the student demonstrators than anything else posted in this thread despite possessing zero contextual base

mission accomplished

[archibaldcrane]

If the clause wasn't wrong I wouldn't take issue with it.

Do you really think anyone is telling Yale students that they lack educational privilege?