PC Principal thread

[archibaldcrane]

I don't apologize for being white, being white is awesome. I don't want my privilege to go away by having people treat me like I'm black - I want it to go away by having non-white people get treated like me.

[dasva]

Of course it goes the other way too. I've known of minorities who should be fired but only get to keep them because fear of discrimination lawsuits. Have a friend that rants about her coworkers doing any work but management wont even acknowledge anything is wrong until they basically show up drunk.

We are all "privileged" in some manner compared to others in some situations because well we are all speschul snowflakes

[BaneTheBrawler]

It's always interesting seeing the conflicting realities of privilege (I'm white as hell) and handicap (I'm disabled, but not visibly). Y'all would not believe the number of people who talk shit about people on benefits and then act like everything they just said somehow magically doesn't apply to me (hurrr you actually need it tho bane durrrr im talking about all those OTHER people phhhhhhbbbbbbbttt). Most of that reaction is simple safeface/backpedaling but every now and then I get hints of more racial undertones.

[thetruepandagod]

Meritocracy 2016 is the only answer.

[Dimmauk]

It's always interesting seeing the conflicting realities of privilege (I'm white as hell) and handicap (I'm disabled, but not visibly). Y'all would not believe the number of people who talk shit about people on benefits and then act like everything they just said somehow magically doesn't apply to me (hurrr you actually need it tho bane durrrr im talking about all those OTHER people phhhhhhbbbbbbbttt). Most of that reaction is simple safeface/backpedaling but every now and then I get hints of more racial undertones.

Are you officially handicapped and collect disability? I know someone that has one leg, and doesnt get to collect because a below the knee amputee doesnt count as disabled. His wife has spina bifida, and she cant even drive, but cant collect disability because she has leg braces.

[NynJa]

Of course it goes the other way too. I've known of minorities who should be fired but only get to keep them because fear of discrimination lawsuits. Have a friend that rants about her coworkers doing any work but management wont even acknowledge anything is wrong until they basically show up drunk.

We are all "privileged" in some manner compared to others in some situations because well we are all speschul snowflakes

Yeah im dealing with this now. I graduated over a year ago from school with honours and havent had one call back. These applications ask if youre a minority because "we are an equal opportunity employer", i might start saying yes and saying im from poor eastern europe (not entirely untrue, my dad is from yugoslavia, which doesnt even exist anymore), and maybe that will work.

[Arelian]

Eh, there's a ton of anecdotal evidence to say that PoC that omit that portion of their identity on an application get more callbacks.

For instance, a Hispanic dude named Jorge says his name is George instead.

[NynJa]

I'm 0/500+ so far, so might as well try to shake it up, especially in this social media bullshit PC era were in right now.

Justin Trudeau is getting e-fellated by various social media sites because of this
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/11...n_8474386.html
People are lining up to suck his dick because of this, because its "gender balanced" with some visible minorities. I dont give a fuck if the PM's cabinet consists of 15 females all of visible minorities, so long as they are THE BEST possible for said position.

[Niiro]

Eh, there's a ton of anecdotal evidence to say that PoC that omit that portion of their identity on an application get more callbacks.

For instance, a Hispanic dude named Jorge says his name is George instead.

If an employer can get equal opportunity credit while still hiring someone that's essentially a white guy then it's just a win-win.

[Dimmauk]

As long as management documents employees poor performance, then there cant be any lawsuits. If dealt with this personally. I've been called into HR to discuss fired employees, and to turn over write-ups, coachings, corrective actions, final warnings, etc.

Some people just want to get fired and collect unemployment. If the termination was justified, then they get nothing!

[BaneTheBrawler]

Are you officially handicapped and collect disability? I know someone that has one leg, and doesnt get to collect because a below the knee amputee doesnt count as disabled. His wife has spina bifida, and she cant even drive, but cant collect disability because she has leg braces.

I collect disability. I was using the term handicapped as an opposite to privilege, not the legal sense, since I'm not sure what all that entails. I am unemployable due to my health, which is the chief criteria for collecting disability.

Also, do you know if they've appealed? Because when you first apply, your acceptance is pretty rote. Not on this list of shit that's automatic approval? Denied. Had to go through a lawyer to do an appeal, but once a human being (other than my lawyer) sat down and looked at my case, it went pretty quickly. 'course, the reasoning might be that "less severe" amputations are easier for employers to accommodate (since collecting disability is more about "can you keep a job?" than anything else). Dunno about the leg brace thing. Makes no sense to me.

[Dimmauk]

I collect disability. I was using the term handicapped as an opposite to privilege, not the legal sense, since I'm not sure what all that entails. I am unemployable due to my health, which is the chief criteria for collecting disability.

Also, do you know if they've appealed? Because when you first apply, your acceptance is pretty rote. Not on this list of shit that's automatic approval? Denied. Had to go through a lawyer to do an appeal, but once a human being (other than my lawyer) sat down and looked at my case, it went pretty quickly. 'course, the reasoning might be that "less severe" amputations are easier for employers to accommodate (since collecting disability is more about "can you keep a job?" than anything else). Dunno about the leg brace thing. Makes no sense to me.

I hired him even though he only has one leg. But his wife is unable to work. They are both young (22), so they probably don't know how to appeal. They also have a child. She of course has been disabled since birth, but he lost his leg in a gun accident.

[thetruepandagod]

Keep it goin baby.

http://theithacan.org/news/universit...t-mirrors-ics/

http://fusion.net/story/231340/ithac...m_content=link

[archibaldcrane]

Just as Vox predicted: http://www.vox.com/2015/11/11/971646...ests-yale-race

[dasva]

These applications ask if youre a minority because "we are an equal opportunity employer",

Never understood the logic... what is the point of knowing someone's ethnicity other than to make a decision based on it.

[Blubbartron]

Never understood the logic... what is the point of knowing someone's ethnicity other than to make a decision based on it.

Correct. Positive discrimination is still discrimination, and inherently unfair.

[archibaldcrane]

Maybe they perform a systematic review of their hiring practices to see if unconscious biases (like, for example, the applicant's name) is affecting their ability to actually choose the most qualified candidates.

http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873

[archibaldcrane]

tl;dr the idea that being not-white is advantageous for applying for jobs is, at best, isolated to a limited number of companies, and the net effect of their "positive discrimination" is swamped by the negative discrimination they experience in the job market overall.

[Blubbartron]

tl;dr the idea that being not-white is advantageous for applying for jobs is, at best, isolated to a limited number of companies, and the net effect of their "positive discrimination" is swamped by the negative discrimination they experience in the job market overall.

And how exactly would we determine just how many companies are hiring because of positive discrimination, or how many people they hire? None of them will admit when they do it. They all use the same bullshit lines about "best candidate for the position" even when it's completely obvious.

In more generic terms, the reason why using positive discrimination to counteract negative discrimination is a horrendously stupid idea is because we can't (legitimately) scientifically measure where the equilibrium point is. Too much positive discrimination for one group ends up becoming negative discrimination for others. The only sane option left is to discourage all forms of discrimination in order to achieve fairness.

[dasva]

Maybe they perform a systematic review of their hiring practices to see if unconscious biases (like, for example, the applicant's name) is affecting their ability to actually choose the most qualified candidates.

http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873

Perhaps some do... but that's clearly not universal. Anyways lack of knowing kind of eliminates chance for bias. Seems if you just wanted to stop it all together you'd leave it out.