PC Principal thread

[Andalusian girls]

Sauce

Long story short: Morgan and co. want to earn as much as the men's world cup champions (WNT 2M vs Germany 35M).

not exactly, Morgan and co. want to earn as much if not more than the U.S. men's soccer team, not as much as the men's World Cup champions.

The filing, citing figures from the USSF's 2015 financial report, says that despite the women's team generating nearly $20 million more revenue last year than the U.S. men's team, the women are paid about a quarter of what the men earn.

http://espn.go.com/espnw/sports/arti...cer-federation

men's soccer tournaments bring in far more revenue and viewership on average than their female counterparts (though perhaps not to the extent of 6 cents on the dollar) so the basic laws of supply and demand justly state the fellas will on average receive a commensurately greater piece of pie than the dames and that reality is not in dispute.

what is objectionable and what lies at the heart of the women's team's case is that according to internal documents released by U.S. Soccer the U.S. women's team generated more revenue than the U.S. men's team in 2015 and is projected to do so again in 2016, while their most recent World Cup title win in 2014 was the most watched soccer game in U.S. television history. the causes of this pay gap could be anything from outright sexism (Sepp Blatter at least has a Trumpian history of denigrating women), to FIFA+USSF wanting to save money any way they can up to and including unjust compensation, to their pay simply not catching up to the realities of a changing sportscape. but whatever the cause the ladies are getting a raw deal and if they aren't able to get what they deserve through labor action i hope they get paid during the next round of collective bargaining, which incidentally will take place at the beginning of next year at the latest.

[Byrthnoth]

... the ladies are getting a raw deal...

giggity

[Jefe]

1. Men's team in 2015 and is projected to do so again in 2016

2. (Sepp Blatter at least has a Trumpian history of denigrating women)

3. if they aren't able to get what they deserve

1. Revenues are projected over the course of 1 or 2 world cups (4 and 8 years respectively), not a single year. There are also many factors to consider such as: advertisers, viewership, tourney, opponent's ranking, match, and players. That is, the USMNT would not make the same if they played a friendly v. Uruguay w/o Suarez/Cavani, etc.; than in Copa America v. Uruguay w/ all their stars. Hell, their earnings in Copa America would be different if they faced each other in different stages (group, quarter, semis, finals, etc.).

2. Did Trump become the new Hitler?

3. Whatever they make should, and it is (as far as I know), proportional to w/e they bring in.

It stands to reason that an event like the Men's final w/ 3.2 Billion viewers would make a killing w/ advertisers vs say the women's world cup final w/ 750 Million viewers.

That being said:



Men bring more, they make more. Women bring less, they make less.

[Zetanio]

Those total numbers are good but the real tell is the split between the Men's and Women's final viewership:

Men's: 1,000,000,000
Women's: 60,000,000
Viewership Multiplier: 16.667x
Payout Multiplier 17x

Yep. Right where it should be.

[archibaldcrane]

So...the women's world cup final has more than 1/5th the viewers as the mens, but the winner gets 1/7th the purse, and the total purse is less than 1/20th the men's purse.

I think you've ruined your own argument.

edit: Zet came in with completely different numbers than Jefe, who I was responding to

note that the US women's team isn't saying all women should make more - just that they should, with the US men's team as the comparable point.

[Zetanio]

Read up.

[archibaldcrane]

Read up.

like i said, two hugely varying sets of numbers, burning a strawman that the USWNT isn't making - they aren't saying all women should be paid more, they are saying that they bring in more revenue than the USMNT and shouldn't be paid 1/4th as much as the men.

[Zetanio]

So...the women's world cup final has more than 1/5th the viewers as the mens, but the winner gets 1/7th the purse, and the total purse is less than 1/20th the men's purse.

I think you've ruined your own argument.

edit: Zet came in with completely different numbers than Jefe, who I was responding to

note that the US women's team isn't saying all women should make more - just that they should, with the US men's team as the comparable point.

I agree with your edit completely.

[Andalusian girls]

1. Revenues are projected over the course of 1 or 2 world cups (4 and 8 years respectively), not a single year. There are also many factors to consider such as: advertisers, viewership, tourney, opponent's ranking, match, and players. That is, the USMNT would not make the same if they played a friendly v. Uruguay w/o Suarez/Cavani, etc.; than in Copa America v. Uruguay w/ all their stars. Hell, their earnings in Copa America would be different if they faced each other in different stages (group, quarter, semis, finals, etc.).

2. Did Trump become the new Hitler?

3. Whatever they make should, and it is (as far as I know), proportional to w/e they bring in.

It stands to reason that an event like the Men's final w/ 3.2 Billion viewers would make a killing w/ advertisers vs say the women's world cup final w/ 750 Million viewers.

That being said:



Men bring more, they make more. Women bring less, they make less.

i see it was necessary to chop my post into three half-sentences to double down on the inaccurate strawman you introduced in your initial post, and so you could present your last two sentences as some kind of declarative refutation when they are a regurgitation of what i had written. no one, including the women's team and the text of their legal action, is saying they should get paid as much as Deutschland Uber Alles. as clearly stated and as clearly ignored the U.S. women's team is presently bringing in tens of millions of dollars more in revenue than the men's team while receiving a fraction of the compensation, and that is the crux of their objection. while it's nice that you introduced some of the complexities of estimating overall revenue generated but it doesn't change the figures. they are getting paid far less to make far more.

and while the National Socialists were big on Kinder, Küche, Kirche Hitler did not have a habit of publicly objectifying women.

[Zetanio]

Are we Godwin'ing this thread right now?

[Andalusian girls]

does that mean i won

[Zetanio]

I have no idea.

[Jefe]

note that the US women's team isn't saying all women should make more - just that they should, with the US men's team as the comparable point.

Long story short: Morgan and co. want to earn as much as the men's world cup champions

Did I say they wanted to make more?

(...)no one, including the women's team and the text of their legal action, is saying they should get paid as much as Deutschland Uber Alles. as clearly stated and as clearly ignored the U.S. women's team is presently bringing in tens of millions of dollars more in revenue than the men's team while receiving a fraction of the compensation, and that is the crux of their objection.

Nothing wrong w/ cutting down unnecessary garbage, is there, mate? Your main 'premises' were left intact. Anyway:



Why don't you tell Alex Morgan, Hope Solo, and co. to stop demanding equal pay then? Because it's clear that's what they want, yes?

1. The USWNT made 16M compared to a USMNT 2M deficit, therefore, they want equal pay as their USMNT counterparts.

2. The USWNT made 16M compared to a USMNT 2M deficit, therefore, they want equal pay as their World Cup Champion counterparts.

3. The USWNT made 16M compared to a USMNT 2M deficit, therefore, they want a figure in proportion to the earnings.

Which is it then??

[dasva]

So found this little gem



posted it then had someone try to say oh no it's only because it was a billboard gender had nothing to do with it and if the other scenes were a billboards there would've been just as much of a reaction about it... in fact it clearly has had a bigger reaction or something lol

[Lyall]

I thought the point was to indicate that the bad guy is a bad guy. If people are angry at him, IT'S WORKING.

[fantasticdan]

If you don't have female super heroes mixed in it's sexist.
If violence is depicted against female super heroes in a similar fashion to male counterparts it's misogynistic.
If your female super heroes are too infallible they are mary sues and it's sexist.

What do.

[Zetanio]

Stop making superhero movies.

[Lyall]

If you don't have female super heroes mixed in it's sexist.
If violence is depicted against female super heroes in a similar fashion to male counterparts it's misogynistic.
If your female super heroes are too infallible they are mary sues and it's sexist.

What do.

Reboot Ghostbusters, turn it around and blame everyone who doesn't like it as the sexists?

[kuronosan]

Or elect a candidate who is terrible and if you don't vote for her you're sexist.

[Byrthnoth]

Or elect a candidate who is terrible and if you don't vote for her you're a trump enabler.

ftfy