PC Principal thread

[tyven]

How exactly is a drunk person supposed to measure equal levels of drunkenness lol? Plus if we accept that one isn't cognitive enough to consent while drunk then how can we accept one is cognitive enough to judge consent while drunk?

pls dont go down this rabbit hole

[Zetanio]

Yeah. Please no.

[dasva]

You people are no fun

[kuronosan]

No, we're just not retarded.

[Cream Soda]

They were definitely both drunk, and this conversation has been hashed out a hundred times in the feminism thread. The concept of rape becomes a horrible mess when people start drinking, but it's stupid to take the perspective that "legal consent" should have any bearing in a normal social interaction.

I just tuned in and I'm going to assume we're talking about Turner.

Correct me if I'm incorrect, but she was discovered unconscious and he was conscious, no?

At that point it's not even a matter of her being drunk. Even if you want to argue "they're both drunk" One is conscious and one is knocked the fuck out

[tyven]

btw a Republican Congressman from TX spoke about this on the House floor this morning. Not sure what he can accomplish but he is making it known he wants the court of appeals to give a harsher sentence.

[dasva]

I just tuned in and I'm going to assume we're talking about Turner.

Correct me if I'm incorrect, but she was discovered unconscious and he was conscious, no?

At that point it's not even a matter of her being drunk. Even if you want to argue "they're both drunk" One is conscious and one is knocked the fuck out

Pretty sure she was but I think Blubb was going with the line someone would've noticed if someone was carrying an unconscious women out so she probably was conscious at first but can't remember anything. But I don't think there is any actual proof that's what happened so hard to really argue that line too hard

[Cream Soda]

Speculation unless someone saw it. Can only go by what was actually seen/documented/has evidence.

I could argue that she was already drunk/passed out there and he just walked by her, saw an unconscious girl, and started fucking.

Is that likely? fuck no; but can't just say "oh this is probably what happened"

[tyven]

apparently he is scheduled for release on Sept 2, which means he will only serve 3 months LOL http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/06/broc...-sentence.html

[dasva]

Speculation unless someone saw it. Can only go by what was actually seen/documented/has evidence.

I could argue that she was already drunk/passed out there and he just walked by her, saw an unconscious girl, and started fucking.

Is that likely? fuck no; but can't just say "oh this is probably what happened"

Yeah it makes for an interesting conversation of possibilities of what could have happened but obviously wont hold up in conversations about known facts of the case

Going back to the article I think the clear take home is don't defend rapists even if they are your friends

[archibaldcrane]

apparently he is scheduled for release on Sept 2, which means he will only serve 3 months LOL http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/06/broc...-sentence.html

Yeah, it was 6 months, but 3 with good behavior.

I guess they looked at his white face and said "yeah, he'll be good, let's set up that 3 month deal" after like 2 days in jail.

[zoobernut]

That whole situation is fucked. Dude shouldn't have gotten off so light. There was no ambiguity of what was going on. Also the letter written by his father was equally despicable.

[Moss]

I just tuned in and I'm going to assume we're talking about Turner.

Correct me if I'm incorrect, but she was discovered unconscious and he was conscious, no?

At that point it's not even a matter of her being drunk. Even if you want to argue "they're both drunk" One is conscious and one is knocked the fuck out

Exactly. Dude gets caught fucking unconscious girl behind dumpster, tries to run away, gets tackled. It's about as clear-cut a rape case as you can find.

That whole situation is fucked. Dude shouldn't have gotten off so light. There was no ambiguity of what was going on. Also the letter written by his father was equally despicable.

It is a truly upsetting situation. I hope the judge gets recalled over it since at this point I don't think there is any way to change the sentence.

[dasva]

That whole situation is fucked. Dude shouldn't have gotten off so light. There was no ambiguity of what was going on. Also the letter written by his father was equally despicable.

I kind of just had to laugh at the father's letter. Oh your son doesn't enjoy steaks as much anymore? Whelp guys you heard it he's already been punished enough

[zoobernut]

I mean she was flat out unconscious when the two guys rolled up and then the dude raping her knows enough that he is doing something wrong to try to run away from them how does that translate to 3 months in prison?

[NynJa]

His parents better hire some around-the-clock security for that boy, because I'm pretty sure there are plenty of people out there who will be glad to extract "20 minutes of action" out of him.

[Infini]

Seems like an odd case from what I'm seeing. Ultimately comes down to the amount of drink involved etc. Obviously the girl is the victim but at the same time HOW drunk was the dude? If hes drunk so much that his own judgment is completely FUBAR doesnt that change the field of play? Would this person actually do this normally if not drunk or completely out of character for that person?

Thats where it gets murky from what I could see because its one thing when the perpetrator is lucid enough to be maliciously and opperunitically taking advantage of an incapacitated woman (in which case the perp deserves everything including the kitchen sink thrown at em) but if the perpertrator is at a point where he's so drunk to be no longer in a competent state of mind what then? Thats the difficult thing to see.

The only thing with these cases is that its usually woman = victim, man = predatory asshole and most of the time thats right but when alcohol is involve it gets messy. One of the things that could be obverved from something like this is never get so drunk as to be completely out of it the end result of this is two ruined lives.

[tyven]

lets not get it twisted. he is blaming this 100% on booze and party culture. Perhaps it is time for drunk drivers to do the same? IDK

[Moss]

Seems like an odd case from what I'm seeing. Ultimately comes down to the amount of drink involved etc. Obviously the girl is the victim but at the same time HOW drunk was the dude? If hes drunk so much that his own judgment is completely FUBAR doesnt that change the field of play? Would this person actually do this normally if not drunk or completely out of character for that person?

Thats where it gets murky from what I could see because its one thing when the perpetrator is lucid enough to be maliciously and opperunitically taking advantage of an incapacitated woman (in which case the perp deserves everything including the kitchen sink thrown at em) but if the perpertrator is at a point where he's so drunk to be no longer in a competent state of mind what then? Thats the difficult thing to see.

The only thing with these cases is that its usually woman = victim, man = predatory asshole and most of the time thats right but when alcohol is involve it gets messy. One of the things that could be obverved from something like this is never get so drunk as to be completely out of it the end result of this is two ruined lives.

You are responsible for your own actions, even if you get drunk. If drinking turns you into an uncontrollably rapey predator then you probably shouldn't drink (and you're probably a rapey predator when sober).

Of all the rape cases to be discussed on this forum, I am shocked that there are apologists for this one.

[archibaldcrane]

Seems like an odd case from what I'm seeing. Ultimately comes down to the amount of drink involved etc.

uh