PC Principal thread

[Melena]

It's the afluenza case all over again, only change kill multiple people by drunk driving to raping an unconscious woman. The only sliver of hope out of this whole thing is A: he's required to be a registered sex offender for life, and B: this forces the topic of rape into mainstream media so hopefully we never have a sentence like this again.

[archibaldcrane]

I am shocked that there are apologists for this one.

are you tho

[Blubbartron]

Everybody keeps saying that she was found unconscious with the guy literally on top of her, but I can't find any witness quotes/testimony saying the same thing. Only lame articles that present hearsay as facts, the kinds that keep calling him a rapist even though he was convicted of sexual assault, not rape. Clearly they aren't unbiased sources of information. The only thing I've heard as far as testimony is the guy saying he was stumbling out of the alley and he got stopped by two cyclists. If anybody can find me a quote directly from the cyclists saying that they found him literally on top of her, and that she was actually unconscious, I'm willing to change my mind about this. Until then, it seems just as, if not more, plausible that the cyclists came upon a shady-looking situation, aggressively white-knighted to protect someone they thought might have just gotten raped, and a drunk guy saw two angry people causing him to think "I'm about to get my ass kicked" so he tried to run.

[kuronosan]

It's the afluenza case all over again, only change kill multiple people by drunk driving to raping an unconscious woman. The only sliver of hope out of this whole thing is A: he's required to be a registered sex offender for life, and B: this forces the topic of rape into mainstream media so hopefully we never have a sentence like this again.

But haven't you ever made a mistake?-You can't spell it without steak!

[NynJa]

Seems like an odd case from what I'm seeing. Ultimately comes down to the amount of drink involved etc. Obviously the girl is the victim but at the same time HOW drunk was the dude? If hes drunk so much that his own judgment is completely FUBAR doesnt that change the field of play? Would this person actually do this normally if not drunk or completely out of character for that person?

Thats where it gets murky from what I could see because its one thing when the perpetrator is lucid enough to be maliciously and opperunitically taking advantage of an incapacitated woman (in which case the perp deserves everything including the kitchen sink thrown at em) but if the perpertrator is at a point where he's so drunk to be no longer in a competent state of mind what then? Thats the difficult thing to see.

The only thing with these cases is that its usually woman = victim, man = predatory asshole and most of the time thats right but when alcohol is involve it gets messy. One of the things that could be obverved from something like this is never get so drunk as to be completely out of it the end result of this is two ruined lives.

He ran, so he had enough rational thought to know what he was doing was wrong.

[Infini]

You are responsible for your own actions, even if you get drunk. If drinking turns you into an uncontrollably rapey predator then you probably shouldn't drink (and you're probably a rapey predator when sober).

Of all the rape cases to be discussed on this forum, I am shocked that there are apologists for this one.

Isn't a case of apologising just a musing at what point is one no longer competent of one's actions with alcohol involved. I mean you got cases of people being murdered and the perpetrator getting off due to insanity for example. From what I gleaned so far the woman was completely incapacitated and vunerable (and thank fuck those 2 guys came along when they did) and the dude was punch drunk but not sure wether he was competent enough to be actually malicious or was out of a competent state of mind.

Everybody keeps saying that she was found unconscious with the guy literally on top of her, but I can't find any witness quotes/testimony saying the same thing. Only lame articles that present hearsay as facts, the kinds that keep calling him a rapist even though he was convicted of sexual assault, not rape. Clearly they aren't unbiased sources of information. The only thing I've heard as far as testimony is the guy saying he was stumbling out of the alley and he got stopped by two cyclists. If anybody can find me a quote directly from the cyclists saying that they found him literally on top of her, and that she was actually unconscious, I'm willing to change my mind about this. Until then, it seems just as, if not more, plausible that the cyclists came upon a shady-looking situation, aggressively white-knighted to protect someone they thought might have just gotten raped, and a drunk guy saw two angry people causing him to think "I'm about to get my ass kicked" so he tried to run.

Yeah I noticed he was convicted of sexual assualt not rape and the information thats going around isn't exactly helpful. If he was lucid enough to know what he was doing then as I said before he deserves everything he gets but when alcohol is involved (and I'm from a place where binge drinking is certainly a problem) thats what murkies up the whole thing as things get more difficult to judge.

[dasva]

You are responsible for your own actions, even if you get drunk. If drinking turns you into an uncontrollably rapey predator then you probably shouldn't drink (and you're probably a rapey predator when sober).

Of all the rape cases to be discussed on this forum, I am shocked that there are apologists for this one.

I'm just playing devil's advocate for the more general sense not this case as it is pretty slam dunk with currently known facts.

So along those lines I think what he was getting at is if you are responsible for your own actions, even when you are drunk doesn't that mean you can assuming you are still conscious or otherwise incapable of communicating of course consent when drunk? Legally clearly not but why do we drop responsibility when drunk when it comes to sex but not other things? And even then while still not legal it's generally socially acceptable for a woman to take advantage of a drunk man. Again while not this case why when both parties are drunk do we usually ssume the man should be responsible for the actions of both?

[tyven]

Everybody keeps saying that she was found unconscious with the guy literally on top of her, but I can't find any witness quotes/testimony saying the same thing. Only lame articles that present hearsay as facts, the kinds that keep calling him a rapist even though he was convicted of sexual assault, not rape. Clearly they aren't unbiased sources of information. The only thing I've heard as far as testimony is the guy saying he was stumbling out of the alley and he got stopped by two cyclists. If anybody can find me a quote directly from the cyclists saying that they found him literally on top of her, and that she was actually unconscious, I'm willing to change my mind about this. Until then, it seems just as, if not more, plausible that the cyclists came upon a shady-looking situation, aggressively white-knighted to protect someone they thought might have just gotten raped, and a drunk guy saw two angry people causing him to think "I'm about to get my ass kicked" so he tried to run.

So do we not count the testimony of the two men that discovered the situation?

[kuronosan]

Unfortunately, no. They were sober.

[dasva]

So do we not count the testimony of the two men that discovered the situation?

I think he's saying he hasn't seen any direct testimony/quotes from them just articles saying those guys gave testimony. I haven't really dug to deep to know if there is any out there but I'd guess it's technically editorial paraphrasing could be making it sound worse. But again it's speculation

[Blubbartron]

I think he's saying he hasn't seen any direct testimony/quotes from them just articles saying those guys gave testimony.

They don't even couch it as "these two cyclists [names] say they caught him in the act." They simply state "soandso THE RAPIST was caught in the act." I want to hear the description of events in the words of the people that supposedly found him before I condemn this man.

[archibaldcrane]

The duo were cycling across the California campus after midnight on Jan. 18, 2015, when they say they came across Turner "thrusting" atop a partially clothed woman.

"It seemed OK at first," Arndt told NBC News. "Then when we looked closer, Peter started noticing — and I later — that she wasn't moving."

The students approached Turner, who Arndt said stood up and left the young woman motionless on the ground.

"We saw she wasn't moving still. So we called him out on it. And the guy ran away, my friend Peter chased after him," Arndt told CBS.

He said Jonsson tackled Turner to the ground, while Arndt tended to the young woman.

"She was unconscious. The entire time. I checked her and she didn't move at all," Arndt said.​ Turner's attorney had argued in court the woman was awake during the encounter and consented.

According to police reports obtained by Huffington Post, witnessing the assault was an emotional ordeal for Jonsson, who cried multiple times while giving his testimony to police.

.

[tyven]

Cool buzzfeed or someone else had an interview with one of them. They had to check if the girl was still breathing. I'm sure you can find it

[archibaldcrane]

They don't even couch it as "these two cyclists [names] say they caught him in the act." They simply state "soandso THE RAPIST was caught in the act." I want to hear the description of events in the words of the people that supposedly found him before I condemn this man.

you realize that nobody gives a fuck whether you condemn him, you're by far the biggest rape apologist piece of shit on these forums

[Blubbartron]

.

Alrighty then, that's pretty fucked up. Wish all articles on the subject had that information, as it's the most relevant. Conviction isn't relevant, evidence is. That's highly damning testimony.

[Blubbartron]

you realize that nobody gives a fuck whether you condemn him, you're by far the biggest rape apologist piece of shit on these forums

Oh fuck off. My unwillingness to call someone a piece of shit based on hearsay is not something to be ashamed of. More people should strive to be like me. We might have fewer innocent people rotting in jail for 30 years before they get exonerated by DNA evidence.

[archibaldcrane]

More people should strive to be like me.

there's not enough food tho

[kuronosan]

I'm sorry, was that you saying you admit that you were totally fucking wrong about the outrage?

People aren't mad because of hearsay. He was undersentenced even WITH that testimony.

[dasva]

Wait that guy's name is Peter Jonnson? That's kind of funny. But damn running after and tackling the guy that's some hero level shit. Also sounds like those guys intervening is probably the only reason things ended in sexual assault and not rape so in this case the distinction doesn't matter so much. That's like stopping an attempted murder and then going well it was only battery

[Zetanio]

Man. This thread fucks.