Paris terrorist attacks and hostage situation

[GoggleHead]

Question to follow a tragedy like this:

If you are against the militarization of police departments, do tragedies like this change that view? I see the problems with it, but it seems like a have it and not need it approach is preferable, no?

I don't agree with your assessment. I think the dangers of a militarized police force far outweigh the benefits. A happy medium might be to just call in the actual military for shit that requires a military style solution. Even then, I don't know that a military response to the Paris situation would've ended any differently. You're gonna have to put forth a pretty strong case to convince me that a militarized police force is anything less than a dystopian nightmare, even in light of recent events.

[tyven]

listen do you think flights and hotels will be cheaper because wow i love paris and would love to go back asaps if it is like hella cheaper, lmk

[jmc]

No. What would the militarization of police do to prevent this? You can't be everywhere. These things are prevented by intelligence not brute force. And we already have appropriate responders in swat teams.

Most police swat equipment is deemed "militarized" though. (Beahcat)

I am not against militarization of the police (surprise surprise). I am however against small towns getting military vehicles that really serve no use to them, or the towns that use the equipment for bullshit warrants

[Abandon]

I don't agree with your assessment. I think the dangers of a militarized police force far outweigh the benefits. A happy medium might be to just call in the actual military for shit that requires a military style solution. Even then, I don't know that a military response to the Paris situation would've ended any differently. You're gonna have to put forth a pretty strong case to convince me that a militarized police force is anything less than a dystopian nightmare, even in light of recent events.

At least in the states, the National Guard is well-trained enough to at least initiate a defense against such a thing. i'm personally not a fan of a militarized police force, though

[FNH]

No. What would the militarization of police do to prevent this? You can't be everywhere. These things are prevented by intelligence not brute force. And we already have appropriate responders in swat teams.

As jmc mentioned this qualifies as militarization. How long would it take to mobilize a National Guard group for a situation like this?

[Quicklet]

Most police swat equipment is deemed "militarized" though. (Beahcat)

I am not against militarization of the police (surprise surprise). I am however against small towns getting military vehicles that really serve no use to them, or the towns that use the equipment for bullshit warrants

Was going to say pretty much this, although a little more on the side against 'militarization' as people commonly define it. Under all but the most extreme situations, a SWAT team is going to be sufficient. Also, smaller towns are smaller targets, and handing them heavy gear just encourages bad behavior both in abuse of civil-asset forfeiture and just in wanting to use tools because they're available.

Also, large cities are special cases since they are bigger targets, have larger budgets, etc. Obviously every place should have the ability to call in assets from the state or federal level if it's ever needed, but a department serving 20,000 residents doesn't need an MRAP-style vehicle just because they're able to purchase one.

[Abandon]

As jmc mentioned this qualifies as militarization. How long would it take to mobilize a National Guard group for a situation like this?

Depends on the size of the state and a few other factors. There are some NG units in a few states that can mobilize and be there within hours.

[Abandon]

Unrelated: I just got a message; all military leave/TDY/whatever to France is prohibited

[FNH]

Depends on the size of the state and a few other factors. There are some NG units in a few states that can mobilize and be there within hours.

Even one hour seems long

[BaneTheBrawler]

There are urban areas whose police response time is in the realm of hours.

[AidenCarby]

listen do you think flights and hotels will be cheaper because wow i love paris and would love to go back asaps if it is like hella cheaper, lmk

too soon

[Kyreth]

well, no, not really.
how did they extract a passport from a suicide bomber (which they claim it was) ? because they didn't. now NATO gets the excuse to go all-in on syria and try to box out russia.

Suicide vests tend to be designed to direct the majority of the explosive force outwards for maximum damage- not that it doesn't kill the wearer anyway but it's quite likely anything in a pants pocket actually survives the experience relatively intact, even if everything above the waist is reduced to mush. You'll frequently see almost completely intact heads post-detonation as well.

[Gadritan]

Such a tiny detail and I'm a terrible person for this, but it's kind of amusing everyone reported the band is a death metal band. They're not. Eagles of Death Metal is like rock/blues kinda deal. One of the original founders is from Queens of the Stone Age if that tells you anything.

[jmc]

Depends on the size of the state and a few other factors. There are some NG units in a few states that can mobilize and be there within hours.

One hour is too long for a active shooter situation.

[tyven]

too soon

Yea but I'm trying to get in on the ground floor when things are cheapest. I feel like it pummels putting a filter on my FB picture


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[FNH]

There are urban areas whose police response time is in the realm of hours.

uh where?

[AidenCarby]

Yea but I'm trying to get in on the ground floor when things are cheapest. I feel like it pummels putting a filter on my FB picture


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Fair enough, carry on.

[Gadritan]

uh where?

This. Even at my buddies cabin in the mountains (last house on the road that even has electricity) it's 30-45min. It's been tested.

[archibaldcrane]

Such a tiny detail and I'm a terrible person for this, but it's kind of amusing everyone reported the band is a death metal band. They're not. Eagles of Death Metal is like rock/blues kinda deal. One of the original founders is from Queens of the Stone Age if that tells you anything.

And their merch manager was killed in the attack.

[Gadritan]

And their merch manager was killed in the attack.

Damn. Didn't hear about that. I saw one interview where they saw a gunman opening fire with an automatic weapon, hit the floor, then managed to book it out a back stage exit and get to a nearby police department.