FDA responds to citizen petition for GMO labeling

[zoobernut]

It's pretty impossible to get a confident "this is better than this" because you are comparing solid waste vs. water usage. Obviously one is better in one realm while the other is better in the other.

edit: also do fully biodegradable, fully disposable (not just liners I mean) diapers exist?

That is why I was asking for citation. I was curious how someone could say definitively that one was better than the other. It seems like both have their pro's and con's and I can't imagine one outweighing the other.

Also I wish there were fully biodegradable, fully disposable diapers. Maybe they exist but I haven't seen them yet.

I bet they would cost a premium though.

Edit: Apparently they do exist and are quite expensive on a per diaper basis but they say they are biodegradable.
http://www.babygearlab.com/Disposable-Diaper-Reviews

[Ksandra]

I know California is in a drought but I would love to see citation on this. Plastic diapers last so long in the landfills and take petroleum to produce and you continually buy more that have to be shipped to you etc. I can't imagine that the water used to wash the cloth diapers outweighs all of the production and shipping costs and landfill cost associated with disposable diapers.

For the record we used disposables though. Who has time for cloth?

There is no clear cut answer, but those that have taken the time to research have come up to say they are both about the same about being bad for the environment (I didn't say cloth was worse, just not better than disposable). This study was over the course of three years:

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...08boir-e-e.pdf

The average 2006 disposable nappy would result in a global warming impact of approximately 550kg of carbon dioxide equivalents used over the two and a half years a child is typically in nappies. The global warming impact from disposable nappies use has decreased since the previous study due to manufacturing changes and a 13.5 per cent reduction in the weight of nappies.
The report highlights that the manufacture of disposable nappies has greater environmental impact in the UK than their waste management by landfill.
For reusable nappies, the baseline scenario based on average washer and drier use produced a global warming impact of approximately 570kg of carbon dioxide equivalents. However, the study showed that the impacts for reusable nappies are highly dependent on the way they are laundered

And yeah, biodegradable do exist, just hella expensive.

[zoobernut]

Thank you Ksandra. Not worse but about equivalent. Though it seems like it depends on where you live and how available water is to you etc. It seems like cloth diapers are getting better with flushable liners and the idea of biodegradable disposables is a good middle ground too.

The study you posted above also is looking at it from a purely CO2/global warming standpoint and the biohazard/landfill issue seems important to consider on disposables.

[Ksandra]

Thank you Ksandra. Not worse but about equivalent. Though it seems like it depends on where you live and how available water is to you etc. It seems like cloth diapers are getting better with flushable liners and the idea of biodegradable disposables is a good middle ground too.

The study you posted above also is looking at it from a purely CO2/global warming standpoint and the biohazard/landfill issue seems important to consider on disposables.

Don't get me wrong, I would assume that cloth would come out ahead ultimately, but I think the difference is rather minor compared to the way you would see some people act regarding them. Which is why I brought it up.

[BerenTebogo]

There's a hard line in the sand I will draw on how much I care about the environment. The difference between the two diaper options in the long run is so minor that if you really care that much, there's far more impactful life changes you can make.

My ass is not fucking washing and reusing shitty diapers. Fuck that. Fuck all of that.

[zoobernut]

There's a hard line in the sand I will draw on how much I care about the environment. The difference between the two diaper options in the long run is so minor that if you really care that much, there's far more impactful life changes you can make.

My ass is not fucking washing and reusing shitty diapers. Fuck that. Fuck all of that.

I totally agree though I was just researching it because the topic came up and I found out there are cloth diapers (outer shell) and biodegradable flushable liners that you use now so you don't have to deal with shitty diapers anymore you pull the liner out flush it down the toilet then wash the cloth shell to make it sanitary. That level doesn't sound like any more to deal with than a blowout. It doesn't sound like too much work anymore with that type of system.

[Psion]

^. but it since the cloth ones are highly dependant on your washer, id say do disposable unless you got a highly energy efficient washing/drying machine.

or you know, just do disposable and save yourself more nightmares in an already nightmarish experience, and spend the time saved teaching your kid to be more responsible for the environment.

[zoobernut]

^. but it since the cloth ones are highly dependant on your washer, id say do disposable unless you got a highly energy efficient washing/drying machine.

or you know, just do disposable and save yourself more nightmares in an already nightmarish experience, and spend the time saved teaching your kid to be more responsible for the environment.

I love how we went from GMO salmon to diapers lol. BG is great.

I think if you have a kid you are already doing an obscene amount of laundry anyway throwing some cloth diapers in with the rest of the wash doesn't seem like it would make a difference. You just have to be smart about how you do your laundry. Though on the other hand with a kid you do so much laundry it might be insurmountable to add any more laundry to the mix.

I don't know I do the dishes and my wife does the laundry.

[archibaldcrane]

You need to wash the diapers separately because they have their own detergent. It's one load every other day - not a huge deal really. However, "energy efficient" washers actually are worse because you need a lot of water to effectively clean absorbent diapers, and the EE ones don't use enough - so you have to do multiple cycles for them. They hang-dry.

We've been using them (Bumgenius 4.0s) since our boy was about 3 months. He sleeps in overnight disposables though, the cloth weren't enough to keep leaks in overnight after he hit about 8 months. Still, it's nice to buy 24 of them and use them for years, his future sibling will probably use them too.

[Salodin]

Do you think it's worth it over disposables? Sounds like a lot of extra work over time. How much is the special shit-stain detergent?

[archibaldcrane]

Do you think it's worth it over disposables? Sounds like a lot of extra work over time. How much is the special shit-stain detergent?

It's negligible. A $22 bag lasted like....9 months? It's not special because of poop, it's special because it doesn't build up on the diapers (which reduces absorbency).

If you have a stay-at-home parent or in-home nanny, I'd consider it. It's not something you'd send kids to daycare in. The wet diapers you just throw in a wet bag until laundry time - I hooked up a sprayer ($25 in home depot parts) on the toilet line in the bathroom to spray out the poopy diapers (and then throw them in the bag). Since he sleeps in disposables now he poops in those probably half the time, on average you're spraying out a cloth poopy diaper maybe 5 or 6 times a week. Granted, I'm not the stay-at-home parent - I change him when I'm home and occasionally do the diaper laundry but usually my wife is handling it.

It's nice not worrying about running out of diapers or having to lug those big bricks of disposables around at the store and stuff, and no "diaper genie" needed for poopy diapers since you rinse those immediately. You've gotta stay on top of the diaper laundry though, obviously. I like 'em just fine, and obviously the savings multiply if you use them for more than one child. "Worth it" is highly subjective, they're definitely not for everyone.

[Salodin]

I feel like the answer to my question would be different if your wife was answering it lol. Idk, it's more expensive sure, but man I don't want to rinse out poopy diapers lol.

[archibaldcrane]

Eh, we aren't poor, if she wanted to switch to full-time disposables (and we've discussed it a few times) we would. She's doing 80+% of the child care so I let her call those shots.

[Ksandra]

It's not something you'd send kids to daycare in.

Word to the wise for future parents: most day cares don't accept kids in cloth diapers. So if you know your kid is going to eventually end up in one, probably not worth it.

I am definitely one of those "would never bother" types. And I used to be a stay at home mom. lol I'd rather play with the kids than adding more cleaning time.

[Inshiya]

What kind of savages don't just hire an Au Pair to raise their children?

[zoobernut]

Looping this back around do you think the people complaining about GMO's are protesting while holding their babies in super high end disposable biodegradable environmentally friendly diapers made from GMO plant materials?

The thought of that makes me laugh.

[BerenTebogo]

Looping this back around do you think the people complaining about GMO's are protesting while holding their babies in super high end disposable biodegradable environmentally friendly diapers made from GMO plant materials?

The thought of that makes me laugh.

My man, let me fucking tell you something.

Motherfuckers with diabetes protest against GMOs. Let that shit sink in. That's how fucking stupid these assholes are.

[zoobernut]

My man, let me fucking tell you something.

Motherfuckers with diabetes protest against GMOs. Let that shit sink in. That's how fucking stupid these assholes are.

Who needs insulin to be cheap and readily available... Won't someone think of the poor bacteria that are being exploited and experimented on!

[kuronosan]

Bacteria are organisms too.

[Ksandra]

Looping this back around do you think the people complaining about GMO's are protesting while holding their babies in super high end disposable biodegradable environmentally friendly diapers made from GMO plant materials?

The thought of that makes me laugh.

God I hope so.