Letter from the Producer LIVE Part XXVI

[Elcura]

This.

I'm not sure why anyone would think that only terrible games can receive good updates or only games in flailing newborn stage can receive good updates.

When your best defense of the game's current state is, "well, the game is stable now so of course the updates are going to be mediocre," you have left the realm of reality.

Must be nice arguing with someone who doesn't exist, 'cause I sure as hell didn't say any of that, but hey, not surprised.

I'd really like to read the posts you're reading.

I'ma trigger at least 90% of the XIV whiteknights when I say this but idgaf: a post-decade-old game is getting significantly more updates and significantly more content additions than the "current gen" gem of the desert alpha super awesome MMO of the century.

Pls let that sink in. And don't tell me "it's 10+ years old and easier to develop for". Cheaper, probably, but easier, extremely unlikely. Anyone who has ever looked at a wall of old code before would know why.

I'll never understand why so many people are happy with the fact that the money they're spending on a product on a monthly basis is not going back in to the thing that they're spending money on.

Gonna chalk it up to end of days syndrome, though the answer to that question is probably more complicated than it needs to be.

Also likely that the money coming from XIV is being put into XV, KH3 and FF7R, which I'm perfectly OK with.

[Spider-Dan]

So your serious explanation for why an ancient supposed-to-be-over MMO with less subscribers is receiving more-and-better updates than a current MMO from the same company is... "end of days syndrome" (???). And the reason why XIV subscribers (<--- this part is important) should accept that there's no money to fund good updates for XIV is because... that money is being used for other games? (As for where the money for those XI updates is coming from... hey, look over there!)

Must be exhausting carrying that white knight armor around all the time.

[Destinye]

It's kind of funny in a way because XI's funding went towards other projects and up until XIV 1.0 was being developed, it never was as apparent as it is in XIV now. WoTG was very obviously not worked on while they were making 1.0, but whether XIV is a newer MMO or not, an old MMO with almost no dev kits shouldn't have more support than their current money maker.

But that's the catch 22, no matter how you slice it, the fact it's making so much money they don't have to do a damn thing different.

[Thiefami]

At this point, they can stop this game any time they like. They don't owe anyone anything more, and the narrative of "miracle resurrected phoenix game" has already firmly taken root.

Not in the sense that they ever owed or currently owe anyone anything. I am speaking more in terms of their brand and how many missteps before they are writing in the red once again.

[Elcura]

Must be exhausting carrying that white knight armor around all the time.

Not even slightly.

Although in your mind it must be so. After all I'm saying all these things you're clearly quoting aren't I?

[Prothescar]

Also likely that the money coming from XIV is being put into XV, KH3 and FF7R, which I'm perfectly OK with.

this isnt kickstarter

[Spider-Dan]

So I guess we've entered the "you're not reading what I'm saying!" phase of an Elcura thread.

If there's a more accurate application of the term white knighting than "I'm perfectly OK with the money I'm spending on a subscription for [game A] going into funding [games B, C, and D] while [game A] gets lackluster support," I don't know what it could be.

[Ragns]

Also likely that the money coming from XIV is being put into XV, KH3 and FF7R, which I'm perfectly OK with.

What I learned working for Early Access games (see what I did there) is that the money your project makes go toward the shareholders, then management, then projects having problems, then you might have something left if management feels like it.

If your project is dying it usually gives the team more freedom since management don't give a fuck about wth is happening with it.

[Cassalot]

Wow I saw that one coming. Spiderdan and Elcura need to get married.

[arus2001]

Anyway, I'm of the mind that MMO sub fees are pretty much a scam these days. Ironically, the only big names still running with them are the 2 companies who arguably don't need them to keep afloat (Square and Blizzard). Meanwhile, you've got enough MMOs who either came out F2P outright or "died" and converted, and are still about. Perhaps they're even stronger than before with the sub option being, well, optional.

Could also bicker about what XI does or doesn't do nowadays, but that doesn't really matter here.

[Spira]

I'm of the mind that the MMO sub fee model is generally outdated - but still has its place only if you're good enough. To wit, the sub fee is what makes the market so competitive, because most people are only willing to do 1 sub, or none. 2+ sub players (like myself with XI and XIV for the longest time) are rare, and while their sub money is good they're actually not healthy MMO players as they probably don't play all their MMOs that much.. or at all.

in this sense, my opinion of whether a game should be sub model relies not on the actual cost/upkeep of said game but rather its ranking of the MMOs that a person plays in his life. ie. if its good enough. because if its not good enough to be the main MMO that a person plays, it will fall to the wayside and people will stop paying/playing. Which is why I think SE and Blizzard still use subscription models - because they're the only ones who still can.

a number of big games have shifted to freemium, which they arguably didn't need to do but was probably a strategic move. cos if you're good enough or people like you/are addicted enough , they will still pay. the main difference is that people willing to pay a lot more are now able to do so, and the people willing to pay a lot less will increase as well.

[haroldsaxon]

Also likely that the money coming from XIV is being put into XV, KH3 and FF7R, which I'm perfectly OK with.

If SE wanted to fund those games, they should fund them via pre-orders/other capital investment that is given for specifically that reason. People pay a sub to FFXIV to play FFXIV and receive the advertised 3/4 month content updates - which throughout 2015 have not only been delayed, but been reduced in quality (copy paste) and quantity (amount of content).

If you want to fund those games, then go pre-order them.

[Alkar]

If SE wanted to fund those games, they should fund them via pre-orders/other capital investment that is given for specifically that reason. People pay a sub to FFXIV to play FFXIV and receive the advertised 3/4 month content updates - which throughout 2015 have not only been delayed, but been reduced in quality (copy paste) and quantity (amount of content).

If you want to fund those games, then go pre-order them.

Hmm no. Preorders are terrible as is, now you're telling me that we should be preordering games to fund them? If big companies like SE are having issues funding their own projects maybe they should reconsider the costs not ask fans to give them more money to make these games. Neither am I ok with sub money going elsewhere (FFXI or XIV, doesn't matter which) but preorders are even worse than that (see the recent Deus Ex bullshit, that was SE as well).

[haroldsaxon]

Hmm no. Preorders are terrible as is, now you're telling me that we should be preordering games to fund them? If big companies like SE are having issues funding their own projects maybe they should reconsider the costs not ask fans to give them more money to make these games. Neither am I ok with sub money going elsewhere (FFXI or XIV, doesn't matter which) but preorders are even worse than that (see the recent Deus Ex bullshit, that was SE as well).

I'm not saying we should or that I would, i'm saying that if you are adamant at throwing money away to fund those games then that is a way of doing it. Its not great, but its still better than expecting other games to fund them.

[Yubar]

You could always have a compromise and go with B2P. Some games are going with that now such as Black Desert Online and are being profitable. And, it keeps some of the pro's of being a pay game such as keeping BRs and Russians from infesting the game.

[arus2001]

B2P is fine, since at the very least, even your average MMO should net you at least 20 hours of play. Though, I'll share sentiment that shifting things to pre-orders is not a good idea. Leave that to indy kickstarters who could use a little a financial injection, not AAA companies that want to stick their fingers into too many pies.

[Ragns]

Ironically, the only big names still running with them are the 2 companies who arguably don't need them to keep afloat (Square and Blizzard).

http://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/ne...60106_01en.pdf

The Company will book an extraordinary loss of approximately 2 billion yen in theconsolidated financial results for fiscal year ending March 31, 2016.

[Nama]

Man I can't even count how many times Square has basically thrown money out the window on pipe dream projects since the Spirits Within movie.... How they manage to remain such a big company seems mystifying at times.

[Ragns]

Don't worry Disney will probably buy them.

[arus2001]

Man I can't even count how many times Square has basically thrown money out the window on pipe dream projects since the Spirits Within movie.... How they manage to remain such a big company seems mystifying at times.

Yeah, this is their bigger issue despite my "seriousness" of the prior. But hey, MMOs, where the motto is to do as little as possible to make as much as possible even if people hate you for it.