Letter from the Producer LIVE Part XXVI

[Sho]

Man I can't even count how many times Square has basically thrown money out the window on pipe dream projects since the Spirits Within movie.... How they manage to remain such a big company seems mystifying at times.

Because they have tons of money. People decry and then claim that SE will die (crash or burn, implode, whatever), but such a thing will simply not happen. The mergers they made as subsidiaries still rake in money as well (Taito and Eidos), not even to speak of their current intellectual properties. It's really easy to tunnel on subscription numbers between FFXI, FFXIV, and DQ10 and forget that they have a TON of money in holdings. If an investment fails, they just cut it off like a dying limb (for example, Shinra Technologies), completely eat the loss, and divert manpower elsewhere.

Instead of worrying about if SE will crash and burn, we should probably think on the fact that they really are starting to slack with FFXIV with their development cycles. And I like to think myself right up there with Elcura as an optimist.

And if it matters, this "Extraordinary Loss" of 2 Billion Yen amounts to about 16.8 Million Dollars. Take it for what you will.

[haroldsaxon]

Man I can't even count how many times Square has basically thrown money out the window on pipe dream projects since the Spirits Within movie.... How they manage to remain such a big company seems mystifying at times.

Because Fanboys.

[LinktheDeme]

I don't think people realize an extraordinary loss in the grand scheme of things doesn't really impact a whole lot. Especially when its the result of a dissolving subsidiary.

A lot of these conversations are starting to remind me of when the /biz/ board of 4chan opened up and it turned into a lot of "consolefags" starting to say Nintendo was a sinking ship and they don't know how long Nintendo is going to stay in business because the Wii U wasn't selling.

[Destinye]

I don't think people realize an extraordinary loss in the grand scheme of things doesn't really impact a whole lot. Especially when its the result of a dissolving subsidiary.

A lot of these conversations are starting to remind me of when the /biz/ board of 4chan opened up and it turned into a lot of "consolefags" starting to say Nintendo was a sinking ship and they don't know how long Nintendo is going to stay in business because the Wii U wasn't selling.

I mean overall its a drop in the bucket, but I can see this being part of the many excuses now when it comes to XIV, because now SE will be "extra careful".

[Thiefami]

Don't worry Disney will probably buy them.

one can only hope

[Silenka]

So many Kingdom Hearts games.

So.

Many.

[Spira]

lol it doesn't really help for them to call it an STI lol.

[Shenrien]

So many Kingdom Hearts games.

So.

Many.

I'm okay with this outcome if that is what happens if they get bought out. I wonder if Disney ever proposed the offer to them.

[Stef]

But listening to Elcura and Stef, you'd think this game was beaming.

This is a pretty significant mischaracterization of my position, so I've obviously failed to explain it well enough. Anyway, I won't try any further, so best of luck and have fun y'all!

[haroldsaxon]

This is a pretty significant mischaracterization of my position, so I've obviously failed to explain it well enough. Anyway, I won't try any further, so best of luck and have fun y'all!

I'll bite:

https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/12...05#post6605205

Your post contained more content than 3.1 and 3.15 combined

[Sho]

I'll bite:

https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/12...05#post6605205

The very first line in that post of Stef's is very true though -- almost all people who complain about an MMO in question have no idea on how to make said MMO good for themselves or others. If they do, they almost always assume it's just a "quick fix" and never take into account the full multitude of factors (technical hurdles, changes in in-game economy, future outlook and meta, etc) and checks that need to be in place before said change could happen (based on the game's core design), however small. Forever an abnormally high expectation that is impossible to meet.

The way I red Stef's post, he wasn't taking an optimist's stance, but instead trying to be as objective as possible in explaining a typical gamer's expectations for a typical MMO.

[Niiro]

almost all people who complain about an MMO in question have no idea on how to make said MMO good for themselves or others.

Which is pretty irrelevant, it's not the players' job to tell the devs how to make the game better, that's what the devs get paid for.

People complain and make suggestions because that's all they can do, SE sure as shit isn't coming up with new ideas.

[arus2001]

I'm not a chef, but I certainly know when a dish tastes terrible. I don't have a difficult time extending that philosophy to gaming. Still, do players not know what all goes into server back-end? No, and I wouldn't much expect them to. Yeah, some things like XIV's housing issue involve this, but I wouldn't say our other recent conversation on player progression methods is egregiously so. It's also not really the players' fault if a dev chose a bad engine or built themselves on a poorly optimized foundation. Calling them out on it isn't a bad thing, especially if it's the token excuse for not doing something akin to XI's PS2 limitations meme.

Telling people to go play another game or to make their own isn't really a position I can endorse, myself. Though, I guess I have an exception to this when it comes to trying to shoehorn PvP into something that was obviously conceived and built around PvE. Games that focus on that are simply generally better, whereas MMO PvP is usually either pre-mades stomping PUGs or zerg vs. zerg where the better geared and numbered win. I guess this can tie into concerns I see some express about mini-games, too, and how they risk eating up time/resources from producing the main dish they're really there for.

It's not an enviable situation, but at the same time, MMOs aren't unexplored territory anymore. "What would happen if we do this...?" is a question that can likely be answered by predecessors. In XIV's case, what if they upped the scale and consequence of FATEs? Well, you could look to GW2 or Rift to see how people felt about things with respect to their Dynamic or Zone Events. I'd be for it, particularly with respect to a non-raider endgame, but I also know some people hate FATEs or anything similar to them with a passion. The why would vary, but I would certainly express concern in not making it seem like you're forcing people into them.

As someone who started gaming on things like the Colecovision and Atari, eventually Nintendo, the gaming scene nowadays just has way, way, way, way more potential via products not being hard-locked into a release state. Patches, expansions, DLC, whatever you wanna call them, things could still change even once they're put on the shelves for sale. This has eventually led to the expectation that these things can, do, and should happen. Wanting these updates to be quality isn't a flaw. Hell, the people who are all, "Suck it up, you should be happy they're doing anything at all!" seem more like the type stuck in the olden days while simultaneously not grasping the social expectations of why people complain or hope, often evoking the tired argument of entitlement as the token put-down. Yeah, some people have shit ideas, but the hubris that players can't possibly know their game of choice is probably worse than wading through all that.

[Destinye]

I think it comes down to SE knows they only have to do the bare minimum with XIV and they have a gold mine - why change anything? Why put in more effort when it's unnecessary at this point? More and more people are getting fed up or realizing ..."something is seriously wrong here" so maybe they'll change it but I know more than enough (especially working with the PS2/PS3 dev kits and helped porting a few games to the PS4) that serverside aside, either the Luminious/Branch is horrible at resource management, or in ARR's rush job they cut so many corners that it finally bit them in the ass.

The very fact they state they have no man power, funding or the servers would die under the strain means foundation wise, it's fucked. XI has features that almost any other MMO has that XIV lacks and as per YoshiP's own words, they have to be careful increasing inventory (for example)..when every other MMO (including XI that was notorious for "PS2 limitations") has no trouble doing so. Just simple stuff like that.

"What I want" is them to be creative for once, but every time there's a live letter or interview he essentially says "Nah, the shit we do now is perfectly fine and we may alienate players if we have to make them think or...well, actually learn how to play the game. I like the money now. Oh by the way, the game is gonna get easier from here on out, think of the new players."

Like...whether you like it or hate it, what was wrong with the original relic progression? The one with the primals and Chimera/Hydra thrown in? They could have done that - It didn't need to be balanced around content SE DIDN'T EVEN PROPERLY BALANCE TO BEGIN WITH.

[layoneil]

Like...whether you like it or hate it, what was wrong with the original relic progression? The one with the primals and Chimera/Hydra thrown in? They could have done that - It didn't need to be balanced around content SE DIDN'T EVEN PROPERLY BALANCE TO BEGIN WITH.

1) doesn't last long enough and people burn through it too quick.
2) doesn't get enough people back into the DF to fill out parties for other people
3) takes more dev resources for new bosses and arenas
4) doing it at this point would involve Ravana and Bismarck EX which are too difficult for the main target audience of the relic quest.

[Spider-Dan]

If the target audience for relic could finish Titan Hard at 2.0 release, they can definitely finish BisEX at i200+ and RavEX is not very far off.

Let's not forget that Titan Hard was a pretty significant hurdle at 2.0 release for a lot of people. RavEX requires slightly more choreography, but still less than Titan EX (provided that one actually does the mechanics in Titan EX).

[haroldsaxon]

1) doesn't last long enough and people burn through it too quick.
2) doesn't get enough people back into the DF to fill out parties for other people
3) takes more dev resources for new bosses and arenas
4) doing it at this point would involve Ravana and Bismarck EX which are too difficult for the main target audience of the relic quest.

1) Have a multitude of steps and stagger the release like the last relic rather than going 40 i-levels in one release
2) Make the content and rewards for DF worthwhile and people will do them, rather than for a specific relic quest (and ties in with point 4)
3) Then don't waste dev resources on LoV
4) Put in worthwhile performance checks for the final job quest so that people must have basic competency in their job, and make that quests completion a pre-requisite for end game content. Not asking for people to do savage level DPS, but people should know the basics of their job, not go into DF and do 500 dps single target in i210 gear. Its the main reason I use DF rarely - because so many people are lazy and god awful and expect to be carried.

[haroldsaxon]

If the target audience for relic could finish Titan Hard at 2.0 release, they can definitely finish BisEX at i200+ and RavEX is not very far off.

Let's not forget that Titan Hard was a pretty significant hurdle at 2.0 release for a lot of people. RavEX requires slightly more choreography, but still less than Titan EX (provided that one actually does the mechanics in Titan EX).

Tbh, I feel like the target audience has got worse since then. Because they haven't had any need to improve.

[Taint]

1) doesn't last long enough and people burn through it too quick.
2) doesn't get enough people back into the DF to fill out parties for other people
3) takes more dev resources for new bosses and arenas
4) doing it at this point would involve Ravana and Bismarck EX which are too difficult for the main target audience of the relic quest.

Meh you can wall content better.

6 Crystals one from Each Zone
Do 5 lvl 50 Dungeons
Collect 8 items bought for 680 Poetics Each/500 Hunt Seals/Maps

Unlocks part 2:
Do Bis/Ravana Story
Do Dusk,Sohm,Aery,Vault
Do the The Aetherochemical Research Facility then Thordan Story
Collect 8 items bought for 680 Law Each/1000 Hunt Seals/Maps

Unlocks part 3:
Do Bis/Ravana EX
Collect an item bought with 1000 ESO (skipped if you turn in the i210 version)
Turn in you ESO weapon (990 ESO)
Do Thordan EX


Boom a gated, quantified grind. Benefits Raiders and makes people do HW content.

[Spider-Dan]

Do Thordan EX

Doesn't make sense to gate i210 relic behind a (relatively hard) standalone fight that drops i205 weapons. The challenge of relic is supposed to be the tedious grind, not actually completing the fights.

And before you say, "i80 relic was gated behind Titan Hard," back then the "grind" part was super easy and quick, and the challenge was primarily in beating Titan Hard.