Annihilator (Gun Control Thread- NOT SHOOTINGS)

[Salodin]

She knows what she's talking about, you two clearly do not.

Welp, one is offering a plethora of evidence to support his argument and the other is saying some kids her classroom really don't mind metal detectors. She also thinks libraries have been employing actual metal detectors for decades.

Which one has more weight to it? Which position is better supported?

Dems would rather stomp their feet and kick dirt than actually apply something that will likely help more than doing nothing but standing around crying about wanting to pass more laws for a decade or two. Clearly the laws around murder and guns are working we just need a few more.

Says the people stomping their feet and kicking dirt that they want something done that they also admit doesn't actually do anything? Idk, I've gotten pretty annoyed that facts don't matter anymore as long as you (not you, just people in general) feel better about a situation.

[Zealot]

Democrats on the Hill have been pushing legislation to enhance gun control measures by doing nothing more than lifting Congressionally-imposed restrictions on the ATF that prevent them from enforcing laws already on the books for close to a decade now. I believe you can guess which party keeps said legislation from passing.

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[Salodin]

According to people in this thread, it's democrats getting nothing done on gun control.

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[Day]

What have they accomplished?

[Salodin]

They have offered many bills in the past year and a half, but Republican leaders won't bring them to a vote. And that's to say nothing of whether the President will sign it.

It's actually easy to play this game when your party controls no levers in government. Tell me, what have republicans done? Are bump stocks still legal? Cause that was an easy layup following the Vegas shooting.

Oh, that's just at the federal level though. Where do I look up stats on dems at the state level and what they're doing? Last I checked a lot of states did things at the local level but that does nothing when your neighboring state doesn't have the same laws.

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[Day]

So nothing

[Zealot]

I mean, imagine you go try to get something you feel strongly about done, except every time you try to make progress someone you can't do anything about will come and kick you square in the dick while everyone else around you complains that you aren't doing anything. If you try to point out all the kicks to the dick you're taking, they'll accuse you of being weak for not having a tougher dick and go cast votes for more powerful dick-kickers.

[Kalmado]

I mean, imagine you go try to get something you feel strongly about done, except every time you try to make progress someone you can't do anything about will come and kick you square in the dick while everyone else around you complains that you aren't doing anything. If you try to point out all the kicks to the dick you're taking, they'll accuse you of being weak for not having a tougher dick and go cast votes for more powerful dick-kickers.

This is how I feel at my job sometimes. Too real man.

[Salodin]

My favorite part is when you ask day the same question and he dodges that shit like Neo from the Matrix.

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[Day]

I mean, imagine you go try to get something you feel strongly about done, except every time you try to make progress someone you can't do anything about will come and kick you square in the dick while everyone else around you complains that you aren't doing anything. If you try to point out all the kicks to the dick you're taking, they'll accuse you of being weak for not having a tougher dick and go cast votes for more powerful dick-kickers.

I dont have to imagine its just reality

[Ksandra]

stuff

You do not grasp that the concept that you can not just take individual parts and claim they are hardening the schools. All of that has to do with the whole environment that has been created. Otherwise you are advocating we get rid of anything and everything that can be related to prisons. No security, no security cameras, no uniforms (note: I actually don't like uniforms, but I'm not enraged by them), no locks on doors, no locking classroom doors (lockdown safety measure), etc. etc. etc. without looking at the whole.


The BIGGEST policy that makes all of that prison like has a lot more to do with how the adults around them treat these tools. Things like zero tolerance policies which, btw, are illegal under California's ed code (obviously can't speak for all states, but considering the new methods of school administration I'd imagine this idea is not nearly limited to CA), treating like the kids are bad vs. the incident is bad (PBIS training is to focus on the actions, not the student), and in general creating more of a bond with students so they have people they can talk to (advisory classes, my security example), focusing more on preventative behaviors to reduce any punitive damages, teaching them the right way to do things, rather than focusing on pointing out the wrong way, etc. etc.

PBIS also is about teaching students the why rather than assuming. Rather than letting students believe these tools are there because we don't trust them, you teach them how they are there to protect them.

In a nutshell, if you create an environment where your actions and words show that you are there for the kids, to help the kids succeed, to protect the kids, then all these tools become positive outlooks in what the school is doing to SUPPORT the student, not punish the student. Because you've spent all your time doing everything to support the student, not punish the student. And you've spent all your time working on how to improve behavior vs. how to improve the student.


[edit] and before you say none of that works, it does. I do it constantly.

[Gredival]

stuff

I too can obscure the argument presented, ignore the content of what was presented, repeat my point, and pretend I am responding with any sort of intellectual integrity.

Like so.

[Boyiee]

Not far from home, potential graduation shooting tonight prevented.

https://patch.com/new-jersey/manches...on-authorities

[6souls]

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-44871588

Justice Department to allow 3D printed guns be downloadable again August 1st after losing a 4-year court battle with a second amendment group.

Ghost guns for everyone!

[Ragnus]

http://thehill.com/homenews/398588-a...-gun-in-public

9th Circuit Court of Appeals rules that open carry of firearms is constitutional, rejecting Hawaii's claim that the 2nd Amendment only applies to owning weapons at home. The dissent mentioned that concealed carry is not protected.

[dasva]

http://thehill.com/homenews/398588-a...-gun-in-public

9th Circuit Court of Appeals rules that open carry of firearms is constitutional, rejecting Hawaii's claim that the 2nd Amendment only applies to owning weapons at home. The dissent mentioned that concealed carry is not protected.

Slight addendum here but in a sense the logic is concealed isn't protected (think both sides agreed on that) and so that leaves open. Which is where this case and a few others over here on the west coast have started as states will make blanket bans or heavily restrict concealed carry... and then make open carry by permit/license that a regular person can never get. In this case they required that it be necessary for his job

[Anoat]

Looks like some country music fans are raging on Eric Church now after he made comments in a Rolling Stone interview where he criticized the NRA and the gun show loophole. As a reminder, Church was one of the performers at the Route 91 festival in Las Vegas, though he did not perform the night of the shooting. Some are trying to make a Dixie Chicks comparison, if you remember that fiasco from the early 2000s.

[Ragnus]

Despite being very Pro-2A, I hate when this kinda backlash happens. The irony is that the NRA and hardcore everything with no exceptions types are the ones who are going to end up getting the second amendment completely abolished if the Dems can ever get in a position to make a Constitutional Convention happen.

There need to be serious conversations about the state of mental health care and the stigmas that surround it, along with what qualifies as a civilian weapon / ammunition. My own example of a place of compromise is the 50 BMG. It's expensive and kinda stupid, but I can see why someone would want to own one. The thing that I question is why there's a need to own black tip AP ammo or AP Incendiary ammo for the thing.

Fucking hell, I even saw a guy on /r/guns post about how he got a tax stamp to re-enable the main gun of a tank that he owns.

[Melena]

Despite being very Pro-2A, I hate when this kinda backlash happens. The irony is that the NRA and hardcore everything with no exceptions types are the ones who are going to end up getting the second amendment completely abolished if the Dems can ever get in a position to make a Constitutional Convention happen.

There need to be serious conversations about the state of mental health care and the stigmas that surround it, along with what qualifies as a civilian weapon / ammunition. My own example of a place of compromise is the 50 BMG. It's expensive and kinda stupid, but I can see why someone would want to own one. The thing that I question is why there's a need to own black tip AP ammo or AP Incendiary ammo for the thing.

Fucking hell, I even saw a guy on /r/guns post about how he got a tax stamp to re-enable the main gun of a tank that he owns.

I've ran across people who think the 2nd amendment doesn't go far enough and we should actually have access to weapons and ammunition to take out tanks and planes when the government rises up against us. Right now I'd be happy with just an increase in Mental Health, and just having to ensure people take a damn range and gun safety class before they can legally own and keep up to date with it. Baby steps better than no steps.

[Zealot]

Those people are morons.

Do they know how much a tank costs? On average a single one is $8.5M. That's not counting money for shells and ammunition, not to mention fuel. Anti-aircraft missiles are hundreds of thousands up to several million each, and fighter planes cost $100M+ apiece.

If they want to open those things up to private ownership I hope they're all ready for Jeff Bezos to stop fucking around when he tells you to sign up for Prime.