Final Fantasy: Record Keeper 2016 Advancilate Twins

[synistar]

Twin Thunderstrike is Fire Lightning Power. Dash Bite does use Wind, but its a 3.7 over 2 hits for a thief ability.

[Robertfb]

New Combat Abyss got datamined for JP and it seems in addition to the last abyss, where any 5* is 100% SSB+ level, seems they're adding the Tyro Selection mechanic to it, where you can do a 50 and in addition to what you get, you can pick a relic from a list for free as an addition, hoping this means the tyro mechanic will be applied somewhat in the future toward regular banners, would make 50 pulls SO much better and rewarding in addition to 100% 5*.

https://www.reddit.com/r/FFRecordKee...igher_is_here/

List taken from Reddit:

Terra BSB
Tyro BSB
Cloud BSB
Bartz SSB
Lightning SSB
Selphie SSB
Yuna SSB
Sephiroth SSB
Zack SSB
Aerith SSB
Lenna SSB
Zidane SSB
Fran SSB
Rinoa SSB

Edit: Atm its not confirmed its like Tyro selection, no one has translated what the additional purple text is on the banner regarding it, but its assumed its either Tyro mechanic or its a seperate gacha pool of relics for some reason.

Edit2: Its translated to "Abyss Pick Up Draw" so it seems like its an additional pull from the pool of relics in the list, won't know more though till tomorrow.

[kuronosan]

So what's next after abyss is the question...

[Alkar]

So what's next after abyss is the question...

Japan's second anniversary is next month so they'll have something new

[Robertfb]

So what's next after abyss is the question...

More Nightmare Dungeons and then eventually Keeper Original Storyline.

[Tyrath]

Can someone explain to Rata why a party of 3 with EXP RMs is more efficient than a party of 5 where only 3 people can get EXP RMs, in the long run? As in, the former party will always have equal or higher total exp gained than the latter.

I've tried and he doesn't see it. Or if I'm wrong, feel free to point out why.

[Ratatapa]

You wanna bring the debate here?

All i said is that if we count exemple leveling 15 characters (since 15 is both a multiple of 3 and 5)

That in the long run i feel that 3 party of 5 characters or 5 parties of 3 characters will do 50-65 or 65-80 at the same time, if we removed the imporabilities like EXP RM proc and Cactuars proc, since does can vary.

I also said that imo you cannot calculate RM procs as valid proof since you can have an EXP proc 20 fights in a row just like you could (with bad RNG) never get a proc for a full day

[kuronosan]

I think he's lost on the math crafting?

Mobs dying quicker doesn't yield more exp unless you delve into long term refreshes, and even then that's given equal exp yield.

100,000/5 = 20k, 40k for whoever gets an RM proc.

100,000/3 = 33k, 66k for whoever procs. Given that unless more than 3 mobs spawn you're limited in how quickly you can kill, 3 people is the most optimal unless you get a group of cactuar, which an Aoe would promptly dispatch.

[Yuri-G]

depends on whether you are looking at xp over time or xp over stamina/mythril though. theoretically, 3 RMS + break for the characters that don't proc is the most stamina-efficient, but (not having tried it myself) that sounds pretty tedious


if you're talking xp over time, then IDK enough to really comment

[Ratatapa]

I think he's lost on the math crafting?

Mobs dying quicker doesn't yield more exp unless you delve into long term refreshes, and even then that's given equal exp yield.

100,000/5 = 20k, 40k for whoever gets an RM proc.

100,000/3 = 33k, 66k for whoever procs. Given that unless more than 3 mobs spawn you're limited in how quickly you can kill, 3 people is the most optimal unless you get a group of cactuar, which an Aoe would promptly dispatch.

Nah I agreed with Tyrath that exemple just level 1 set of 3 members from 65-80 is faster then 1 set of 5 members from 65-80 I agree on that.

I just can't buy him calculating RM proc rate in the stats since you can't predict when it will proc

So if we go with base stats that ARE calculable, aka no EXP RM and exemple a daily ++ (that always gives same EXP)

It will be about the same speed to level 3 parties of 5 characters from 65-80 and 5 parties of 3 characters from 65-80

[Melena]

The odds of not getting a proc for a full day, are pretty low. I believe it's a 40% chance the RM will proc. Someone on reddit also did the math showing that 3 with 3 EXP RM's will have a higher exp yield then 5 with 3 exp RM's.

Plus the "faster" farming is negligible at best, as more often then not 2-3 people will not even perform an action due to there only being 2 mobs available.

Then for even more math. Taking what Kuro already posted, if you need 200k to go from 79-80, in a party of 5 you would need between 5 and 10 rounds to go up that one level. In a party of 3, you would need 3.03 to 6.06 rounds for that one level.

[Kirin]

If youre leveling a group for say CM restrictions, than getting everyone at the same level is probably more desireable than 3 at 80 and 2 at 65.

In terms of pure efficiency as a product of exp/time/stamina, it probably does not matter much in the long run because exp is a set value. Much like the argument about when to use exp eggs.

That said, as far as human conditions go for rewards along the course of certain events having 3 people to me seems faster since it feels like youre getting more done in rotating characters out than you would otherwise. With pure numbers involved, im sure there is a point on whatever graph where churning out 5 people more slowly catches up with churning out 3 characters at a faster pace.

tl;dr - do whatever you want. I'm just happy this wind phase essentially got everyone on my roster to 50, probably 80% of MC2 capable people are at 80, and 90% of MC1 capable people are at 65.

[kuronosan]

Unless exp is consistently the same, in no world is a 5 man better than 3.

[arus2001]

More inclined to just say it's a preference thing. I personally wish they'd change the EXP materia to a flat 20% always on boost, and obviously give us 2 more, but that'll never happen. In the end, if you have 3 people you REALLY need the EXP for now (like a CM), then that route is obviously quicker, but the math catches back up with you eventually since you're not getting the same stamina back any quicker and are technically "losing out" on the 2 you don't run at the time.

[Rooney]

Following that logic through, the most efficient exp gain is with a party of one with exp RM.

[Ratatapa]

Here's another math I did, to level 1 character from 65-80 you need about 2 980 000 XP. Counted a daily ++ fight that gives about 20k EXP total Championned for 30 stamina

To level 1 a party of 5 characters from 65-80 you'd need 745 ++ fight for about 22 350 stamina
To level 1 party of 3 characters from 65-80 you'd need 447 fights for 13,410 stamina

My goal is to level 15 characters with both Methods,

So to level 15 characters in a set of 5 at a time you need 3 full sets so 22,350 stamina *3 = 67 050 Stamina
So to level 15 characters in a set of 3 at a time you need 5 full set so 13 410 stamina *5 = 67 050

So if you go the way with 100% calculable variables. both methods have the same speed IN THE LONG RUN, but 5 man is safer since you kill faster and less chance of medals lost.

But once again I cannot calculate RM procs in it since it's too variable


Now time for you all to debunk my maths

[Alkar]

More inclined to just say it's a preference thing. I personally wish they'd change the EXP materia to a flat 20% always on boost, and obviously give us 2 more, but that'll never happen. In the end, if you have 3 people you REALLY need the EXP for now (like a CM), then that route is obviously quicker, but the math catches back up with you eventually since you're not getting the same stamina back any quicker and are technically "losing out" on the 2 you don't run at the time.

We actually get 2 more EXP materias. 1 from Onion Knight (forgot which though, either his RM2 or 3) and another from Luneth's RM4.

[Rooney]

That math is fine for 100% non-variable situations. RM procs will favor the smallest possible group. A one person party can get 200% of the total exp 20% of the time. A two person group can get 200% of the total exp 4% of the time. Three person is .8%. Four and above can never double the total exp.

[Ratatapa]

That math is fine for 100% non-variable situations. RM procs will favor the smallest possible group. A one person party can get 200% of the total exp 20% of the time. A two person group can get 200% of the total exp 4% of the time. Three person is .8%. Four and above can never double the total exp.

Ok then what happens if exemple in 160 fight you get 100 procs in a 5 man PT and 50 procs in a 3 man pt

What happens if only 1 of the 3 RM procs and etc

[Tyrath]

Rata's problem isn't the math. His problem is that he's saying you have to disregard exp procs because you can't prove that a person who lets say gets 1 proc in a party of 3, would've gotten the same proc in a party of 5. Which from a statistical point of view is nonsense because you have to take the 13% (or is it 20%?) proc and apply it equally to both party setups. Of course I can't go back in time and prove that the same exact proc would've happened with both setups, but I can say with reasonable certainty that the same person will get the same procs regardless of what party setup they are using if applied over a long period of time.