February 2016 Version Update - Discussion & Findings

[Sumy]

So they DIDN'T "fix" the ranged mythics?

Lame!

Was so pumped and ready to resub and finish my gastra. But now... idk.

Maybe this might spark some people complaining on the official forums as to why these mythics don't actually do this as well?

What do you mean by fix? The AMIII for Ranged Mythics has always been "Occ. does Double or Triple Damage" instead of "Occ. Attacks Twice or Thrice", which is nice, since it can stack with CORs Triple Shot and RNGs Double Shot - if this ISN'T how it's supposed to work, then that's kinda lame.

Not being able to Triple Shot for Triple damage would stop me from upgrading.

[Ihina]

So BLM and SCH gets tons of macc on their upped jse staff. What does RDM get now? Our jse weapon is a sword and it has very low macc skill. Is it now mythic or bust? That'd be kinda sad.

[Kyte]

There's still Grioavolr, which can now get higher macc augments than before.

[dasva]

What do you mean by fix? The AMIII for Ranged Mythics has always been "Occ. does Double or Triple Damage" instead of "Occ. Attacks Twice or Thrice", which is nice, since it can stack with CORs Triple Shot and RNGs Double Shot - if this ISN'T how it's supposed to work, then that's kinda lame.

Not being able to Triple Shot for Triple damage would stop me from upgrading.

I think he means fixed in that it works different than melee weapons. They are effectively getting double to triple dmg and double to triple tp gain... oh and they also proc on ws. Been a long time since I tested it and was test server but when I did Gast it didn't seem to work on double shot or barrage either though who knows now

[Karizo]

You're forgetting Lathi has 68 MAB as well. It will still win easily.

I appreciate your feedback, but I'm merely going off the formula posted on bg-wiki for Death.

(MPx3 + Magic Damage)*(MAB/MDB)*Affinity*Day/Weather

Magic Damage caps at 32, so it becomes insignificant compared to my total MP and therefore ignored.

Using my shitty Death set as an example, I have 1720 MP with Lathi, and would have 1870 MP with the new staff. That's roughly a net gain of 10% on the MP term, x3, 30%.

In order for MAB on Lathi to be worth it, the net gain of 68 MAB has to account for a 30% increase in the MAB term, that's implying a BLM with 200 MAB? I think not, most BLM have more than that I would think. Therefore the 68 MAB would account for a much lower increase in overall output.

I have no idea how this equation interact with the full magic damage formula, so any additional feedback is appreciated.

[Mojo]

I appreciate your feedback, but I'm merely going off the formula posted on bg-wiki for Death.

(MPx3 + Magic Damage)*(MAB/MDB)*Affinity*Day/Weather

Magic Damage caps at 32, so it becomes insignificant compared to my total MP and therefore ignored.

Using my shitty Death set as an example, I have 1720 MP with Lathi, and would have 1870 MP with the new staff. That's roughly a net gain of 10% on the MP term, x3, 30%.

In order for MAB on Lathi to be worth it, the net gain of 68 MAB has to account for a 30% increase in the MAB term, that's implying a BLM with 200 MAB? I think not, most BLM have more than that I would think. Therefore the 68 MAB would account for a much lower increase in overall output.

I have no idea how this equation interact with the full magic damage formula, so any additional feedback is appreciated.

You are comically bad at math. If you have 1720 MP with Lathi and 1870 MP without, base damage goes from 5192 to 5642. That's a marginal gain of 8.67%. You would need 685 MAB before 68 MAB fell below a marginal gain of 8.67%.

[Vathris]

Karizo is JP, of course his math is right.

[Karizo]

You are comically bad at math. If you have 1720 MP with Lathi and 1870 MP without, base damage goes from 5192 to 5642. That's a marginal gain of 8.67%. You would need 685 MAB before 68 MAB fell below a marginal gain of 8.67%.

i was drunk obviously.

anyways, so does a typical BLM at 2100 JP and decent gear have 685 MAB total or not? this would have to include traits, JPs, and gifts? someone add it up kthxbye

[Ramzii]

no, it's around 450 if you use 4/5 amalric +1 in your death set

[Sechs]

There's still Grioavolr, which can now get higher macc augments than before.

Wonder how higher. Previous cap was 30 with Taupe/Fern and 40 with Pellucid, no?

Coeus was a disappointment for me. I was hoping for some special bonus like enhancing magic duration, instead we get lots of macc, a shitty amount of mab and FC, meh...

[Shadowlina]

A capped Sindri has Accuracy +50 Attack +30 Double attack +5

[Julian]

I think he means fixed in that it works different than melee weapons. They are effectively getting double to triple dmg and double to triple tp gain... oh and they also proc on ws. Been a long time since I tested it and was test server but when I did Gast it didn't seem to work on double shot or barrage either though who knows now

This. Hence why "fix" was in "quotes".

Don't know about double shot, probably works on that, but it most definitely does not work on barrage, which is retarded.

Granted, I haven't played 11 in over a year, so I have no idea what the "meta" is like now, but I'd imagine the greater tp gain from 2-3x hits would be much more beneficial than double/triple damage that doesn't proc on barrage. As for COR, maybe not as beneficial, but I don't give a damn!

[Shenrien]

This. Hence why "fix" was in "quotes".

Don't know about double shot, probably works on that, but it most definitely does not work on barrage, which is retarded.

Granted, I haven't played 11 in over a year, so I have no idea what the "meta" is like now, but I'd imagine the greater tp gain from 2-3x hits would be much more beneficial than double/triple damage that doesn't proc on barrage. As for COR, maybe not as beneficial, but I don't give a damn!

Current meta is SCH making skill chains and BLM & GEO blowing shit up for the most part, feeding as little TP as possible to bosses because their attacks are nasty.

[Oyama]

Blu actually has quite high macc due to all the mage gear it has access to, macc trait +35 more, and an additional +20 from Job Points. Plus Colada has another 15, as does a Path A Nibiru blade. If you use Gouge, you also get a +20% chance from another JP category (though you lose the 35 from not setting crush), and a lot of recent gear has high amounts of both acc and macc so you can still land stuff pretty well on a lot of content. I can't comment on how well it works on Maju, but for higher stuff you would opt for Crush anyway and I'd be surprised if it didn't land pretty consistently, even if just for a shorter duration. And Blu also gets very high attack with berserk and nature's meditation (fulltime +20% attack) and, if you have the space, setting an attack bonus trait.

[Julian]

Current meta is SCH making skill chains and BLM & GEO blowing shit up for the most part, feeding as little TP as possible to bosses because their attacks are nasty.

My god that sounds worse than when everyone was throwing bsts at everything.

[Sechs]

I don't see how that sounds worse than that.
Not saying it's ideal, but worse? Why?

[Protey]

I don't see how that sounds worse than that.
Not saying it's ideal, but worse? Why?

I'd say not worse, but on par with being lame way of getting NMs killed. SE really shouldn't have given SCH immanence, nor should they have made it so BST pets could do TP moves without having TP. GEO kind of broke things too. Don't know how SE will fix these things, I doubt they ever will.

[Sechs]

Again, I'm not saying the current situation is ideal, but the biggest problem with that is not that the strategy is broken by itself, more than it gets boring when you use it on 99,9% of the content. Should've made so MORE content was somewhat "immune" to such strategy and hinted for other, different setups.

Might be my own personal view but the BST strategy was a big load of exploiting and avoiding game mechanics. You had a bunch of BSTs, a GEO, maybe a COR, all staying at safety distance and deploying disposable pets that you could resummon very fast and that could pack insane damage every 10 seconds.
Now this is a simplification, and it required a lot of JPs and some specific items (not so many tbf) for it to be effective, but it was a very simple strategy with small space for mistakes.

Here we have a strategy that requires one or more tanks, with their support, their healer, then you have a bunch of mages who will wait for the right chance to land strategically planned magic bursts of the appropriate element, they will benefit from a lot of synergized buffs and debuffs, will have to manage their MP carefully and will require their own support. There will also be one or multiple SCH creating the necessary SCHs for the mages, and MBing themselves.
As cheap as this setup may seem, it's way more within the "game mechanics" than the BST ones? There's a lot of things to consider, many things that can go wrong, so many things that you have to do in succession and at the right moment etc etc.
I see much more depth in this strategy, it seems more "normal" than the BST one to me.
Yes it's a bit cheap, but the big problem is not that, it's more like I said before: it gets BORING when it's the only thing you do for 99% of the content.

If it were just ONE of the things you do in endgame content I'd dare to say there would be nothing wrong with this strat.

[Jem]

I don't think it's any worse than mindlessly zerging things down and I say that as someone who is predominantly melee.

We're always going to gravitate towards the easiest, most efficient strategy which is always going to be a cheesey way to win.

[Sechs]

I don't think it's any worse than mindlessly zerging things down

Couldn't have found a better example myself.
As a matter of fact I felt the same way when 99% of the things we did in end-game was stunlocking nms exploiting embrava/perfectdefense and zerging everything with an alliance of melees and partyswapped CORs and BRDs.
Both this and the SC+MB strategies are a bit cheap, but they both feel kinda "normal" and (almost...) perfectly within game mechanics.
The "issue" I see with both of them is the fact that using only one on pretty much everything gets boring, boring, boring.

I really can't put them on the same level as the BST strategy, but that's just me I guess.