February 2016 Version Update - Discussion & Findings

[Sechs]

I can't believe anyone

I'm honestly surprised that you're surprised.
People tend to complain about the smallest things, more often than not without any valid reason to support their complaints.
You're not new in the community, how come you can't believe someone would complain about this, when they have at least part of some valid motivation to support their concerns?
People started complaining about it before the patch hit, when someone was only hypothesizing a 10k amount.
I really don't know how come it suprises you.

If anything it should have been in the area of 50k to make it closer to the effort of an afterglow

If this is your point of view, I can understand it and support it, I agree with what you said.
There is another equally legitimate point of view though, and I'm under the impression you're failing to consider it atm.
Some people, I dare to say a lot of people, couldn't care less about getting an aura effect on their weapon or an afterglow. All they wanted was to be able to make their precious treasure viable once again.
From this point of view yes, 10k is a big amount. Not an unsurmountable mountain or something that will take years to complete -I judge it a high amount but within reason-, yet you should be able to emphathize with these people and their point of view, despite having a different stance yourself.


There's also the other question about a large part of AG owner who achieved it through not so legit means, making the point about "a lot of effort" moot, but then again I guess discussing about it can only lead to useless drama instead of constructive discussions.
One practical example we could and should consider though is about Ergon owners. They have no AG counterpart and their weapons are by far the most expensive and most time consuming to obtain. Yet they get the same exact 10k Beitetsu trial as anybody else, and no aura/afterglow in return.
I don't own an Ergon weapon myself, yet, but I probably wouldn't feel happy about this trial if I did.

[dasva]

Guys, does anyone have an opinion on ranged attack damage? I know rngs (on paper,at least) didnt get much love from this update, still i'm wondering whether anyone figured out the actual numbers?

Yeah the new caps are over in the mathy section.

[Ramzii]

They should have made RME reforge go through the same process as Aeonics so people would actually go and do content rather than sit in town and bitch about how there's nothing to do in the game

[Jah]

Yeah the new caps are over in the mathy section.

Yeah, sorry, bad wording on my behalf. What i meant was: given how small the buff is, does it mean rngs will be terribad?

[dasva]

Yeah, sorry, bad wording on my behalf. What i meant was: given how small the buff is, does it mean rngs will be terribad?

I think you mean still terribad and yeah probably. It would take a lot to make rngs desirable

[Ihina]

No reason for RNG to be as strong as any melee job. They can sit in the back row and fire away gaining minimal hate and still do a respectable amount of damage. If immanence wasn't a thing, we'd probably all be using RNGs about now, since they can also create skillchains from a distance.

[Jah]

No reason for RNG to be as strong as any melee job. They can sit in the back row and fire away gaining minimal hate and still do a respectable amount of damage. If immanence wasn't a thing, we'd probably all be using RNGs about now, since they can also create skillchains from a distance.

that's a respectable point of view, although you must agree there's no reason to bring a RNG when it's neither as strong as any melee job nor nearly as strong as mages. I fail to see its niche, that's all.

[dasva]

Hate is inconsequential now. That niche has been destroyed. The only point of rng is if they can still shoot out of AoE range which mages do better 99.9% of the time

[Jem]

Not to mention it has to pay for the privilege too.

[Ihina]

Well just wait a little while. Doesn't change the fact that RNGs have a range advantage that needs to be balanced with its damage output. Eventually we'll have some mobs with dangerous AoEs that you can't nuke for good damage. RNG bangwagon come along more times than any other job.

[dasva]

You'll have to tack onto that list of requirements have low enough hp that the inferior rng dmg can actually kill it in the short time widows they give.

Most if not all of the previous rng bandwagons were done in situations where kill speed didn't make or break you and were usually just done when stuff first came out before we discovered how to not die to the mob with faster melee setups. They edged out mages largely due to enmity actually mattering in the past.

If some weird situation like nasty AoEs and bad magic dmg does come up I'd bet people would just throw smn and pup at it

[vivbiibasjiu]

I'd rather if RNG remained irrelevant until the servers shut down, the clockwork RNG bandwagons that happen every now and then are always very boring and annoying and usually some of the worst eras of the game

[Jah]

I'd rather if RNG remained irrelevant until the servers shut down, the clockwork RNG bandwagons that happen every now and then are always very boring and annoying and usually some of the worst eras of the game

Or make it, like, viable. Without necessarily make it broken.

[Ihina]

Previous RNG bandwagon was I believe during AA BCs. Plenty difficult, plenty of HP, on a timer. RNGs made short work of them embarrassingly easy, even VD.

[Fwahm]

IIRC, VD AAs had like 200-350k HP, which really isn't all that much when you have a half hour to get through it.

[vivbiibasjiu]

Or make it, like, viable. Without necessarily make it broken.

That would be fine but honestly with this playerbase that would be difficult if not impossible, you give them a hand and they take the whole arm

[dasva]

Previous RNG bandwagon was I believe during AA BCs. Plenty difficult, plenty of HP, on a timer. RNGs made short work of them embarrassingly easy, even VD.

Timer yes. Relevant timer no. I mean you saw groups of lol pups doing it and they aren't exactly the fastest method of killing anything.

[dasva]

Or make it, like, viable. Without necessarily make it broken.

One thing they could do is raise the damage caps. In similar setups that we use now for MB a rng or cor or heck even a war/bst ending a several step skillchain with a magical ws could do some ridiculously massive dmg if not for the cap while also requiring a bit of coordination

[vivbiibasjiu]

I highly doubt PUPs were doing VD battlefields during that time with any success, even if every one of them had a Kenkonken

[Ihina]

Point is, I'd argue that even if RNG isn't the best DD right now, they're still viable when appropriate.

Yes, their circle of viability doesn't overlap melee DDs exactly, but that's because, again, range advantage.