February 2016 Version Update - Discussion & Findings

[Kazeryushin]

I think headwind would give the most box since all 3 mithra can drop boxes not sure how hard they are now...

we tried AAMR with 3x blm Death and got it down to 24% before August went down

[Fwahm]

So basically, two handers are left even further in the dust, crit WSs are stronger than ever, it didn't fix the melee survivability issue, and since you need to be above the previous ratio cap for it to even matter outside of crits, it only really matters on actual hard stuff when you're bolstering defense down and such (other than WSs with large attack bonus)?

Good job, SE.

[Sechs]

Good job, SE.

Was about to say pretty much the same =/

[TummieGaruda]

With the update to the AMAN Reclaimer NPC's, it seems SE expects players who don't do groups to just spam WKR for junk items and then turn them in for Copper Vouchers, though most gear only gives 600 points and you need 1000 for a voucher and you need two for 1 upgrade item. Typical SE thinking...

[Byrthnoth]

So basically, two handers are left even further in the dust, crit WSs are stronger than ever, it didn't fix the melee survivability issue, and since you need to be above the previous ratio cap for it to even matter outside of crits, it only really matters on actual hard stuff when you're bolstering defense down and such (other than WSs with large attack bonus)?

Good job, SE.

Crit WSs are actually weaker than ever.

Former Max: 3/2.2 = Crits are a 36% boost
Current Max: 4.5/3.5 = Crits are a 29% boost

As far as 1H vs. 2H, 2H users got a ~66% boost to max DPS/WSD compared to a ~45% boost for 1H max DPS/WSD. The real people who should be bitching here are the Ranged users, who were made even less competitive by their paltry 16% boost. Also, those who relied on magic WS damage (which is unaffected).

[Fwahm]

Those numbers are only accurate if you're above the previous ratio cap, which is pretty much only going to happen on any stuff that's actually hard if you're bolstering/BoGing an Idris frailty or something (or using an attack bonus WS, of which two handers don't have any good ones).

If you are slightly below or around the pre-patch ratio cap, then crits will be a bigger bonus than before because they're not hitting the previous cap, and two handers' higher cap doesn't even matter.

Sure, melees (and two handers in general) are better on weak stuff than before, but when was that the actual problem?

[Kyte]

Uhhh, I might not be remembering a couple but 2handers get a lot more WS with attack boosts than 1 handers and they tend to be about as good or better.

[Jem]

The update seem like a bit of a FU to DRK. Scythes are still as bad as ever and their go to Greatsword WS took a hit since it has an attack penalty. Not that it will matter if melees still aren't desirable.

[Harukasakura]

augments on JSE are probably in 3 paths. i noticed my Dunna shows an "A" next to the Rank. since its 3 types i expect all 3 to be different. Boulders resulted me with A and Macc/fast cast path

[Fwahm]

Like what? As far as I know, the only relevant WSs like that for two handers are Shoha (roughly +35%, which is decent), Quietus (defense down is low unless at very high TP, and fTP absolutely sucks), and Camlann's Torment (same). In addition, GSD's and Polearm's primary WSs have an attack penalty.

One handed weapons get Mandalic Stab (huge +75% attack), Ascetic's Fury (gigantic +100% attack), and Kamu (roughly 30%, which is decent).

[Byrthnoth]

well, your complaint was that 2H users were somehow "left in the dust" when actually the opposite happened.

On weak content, your trusts don't care what job you're on. On harder content, you should have a GEO and Dia II. WAR gets near-permanent Berserk. Dark Knight gets Last Resort. Dragoon gets access to WSs that ignore defense. We don't have a complete model / I haven't parsed it and don't know whether they're better than 1H jobs now, but all signs indicate that the difference in the buffs at least shaved away at the gap.

Also, iirc Ignore Defense WSs stack with other forms of Defense Down. So if you've got 50% Defense Down from Frailty + Dia and you use Camlann's with Moonshade for another 20% Defense ignored, the monster would only have 30% Defense remaining (effectively a 40% reduction in his remaining defense).

[Jem]

Isn't the problem with Ignores Defense WS'es that they generally have shit fTP values? Or did that change whilst I was gone?

[Kyte]

They do, but they do suck a lot less than they did originally. Furthermore, it's a bit silly to list Ascetics (twice) when trying to support your argument that 2-handers got the shaft when Monks needed a boost just as much.

[Fwahm]

Let's say you have 50% defense down on a mob with 2500 defense.

You're going to need at least 2800 attack to even get past the previous cap, before you're getting any bonuses at all compared to before. I don't know about you, but even on DRK I don't routinely get that high unless I'm getting SVed minuets or something in addition to a corsair. Saying that stuff like Quietus or Camlann's Torment lowers defense by an effective 40% doesn't mean much when they'll still usually be weaker than other options because of their 3.0 fTP (and when they're stronger, won't be by much).

[Fwahm]

They do, but they do suck a lot less than they did originally. Furthermore, it's a bit silly to list Ascetics (twice) when trying to support your argument that 2-handers got the shaft when Monks needed a boost just as much.

Of course it's silly; it was a typo.

[Kyte]

I know, but that wasn't the silly part (which is even mentioning it at all when it isn't exactly a 1-hander in the first place).

[Nanaky]

Just Rank 14'd the Arktoi. Delve Bee Axe is fucking done...

So Far at Rank 14
Accuracy +47
Pet: Accuracy +47
Pet: Attack + 28

That doesn't include the Pet: attack +20 and Double Attack+3 already on the Base.

Jesus this is insane..

Hey Viewpoint, which Path was that on Arktoi, with which stones? (I believe each stone is a different path)

Thanks

[The Assman]

All stones give the same augments.

[dasva]

To add onto the 2hd thing drg also get that attack and def boost for keeping their chicken alive. And agnon just got better

[Damane]

Uhhh, I might not be remembering a couple but 2handers get a lot more WS with attack boosts than 1 handers and they tend to be about as good or better.

as far as i know gekko and metatron torment have a hidden atk boost too if i am not mistaken. there are couple of them