WARNING SPOILERS!! Captain America: Civil War - Discussion Thread - SPOILERS!!

[AidenCarby]

While that's true, he was fighting to keep -that- original team together, making this whole thing meaningless once a majority of them left him.

[AidenCarby]

Also get that spelling error shit out of my house, go fellate a taser with that "the word you're looking for has one letter transposed," I can practically hear you pushing your glasses up your nose and smirking.

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I don't wear glasses

#teamcap

[Zealot]

Oh Team Cap all the way, man.

He still lost.

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[dasva]

Cmon super heros don't lose. Both sides won to a degree

[Xno Kappa]

They didn't live happily ever after!? Clearly shit ending.

[kuronosan]

People are missing the point. Tony was going too far and making all the same mistakes. Being a hero cost him Pepper, he found out his dad's idol is friends with the guy who killed his parents and was protecting him, and felt like the shield was something his father designed to protect all the good blah blah. Steve protecting a "murderer" made him "not worthy" to use it. In the end Steve was trying to do the right thing. List of things Tony lost:

Pepper
Half his team
His best friend got crippled
His parents
Natasha
The trust of the Accords nations
And finally, the ability to get revenge

Steve took all that because of his actions. Tony just couldn't see it, because, like his character has done in every appearance, he takes the wrong approach in saving the world by putting it all in his own hands instead of trusting his friends.

[Anakron]

I think if you consider what each of the three sides (UN, Stark, Cap) were fighting for, only Cap won.

The UN didn't want to just outlaw Avengers--they could've done that by themselves unilaterally. They wanted to bring (at least part of) the Avengers under their control, which is why they asked the Avengers to sign. In the end, the UN showed that they couldn't enforce anything by themselves. Cap broke his buddies out, and Stark wasn't taking orders from Ross anymore. Sure, the Avengers may be outlaws now, but that wasn't the UN's endgame. The endgame was controlling the Avengers, and they did not get that.

Stark wanted some semblance of order and control to the Avengers' activities. And it sounded good in paper, until he saw firsthand what the UN's take of that was. Stark was visibly disturbed when he saw his friends imprisoned, and especially with Scarlet Witch in a straitjacket (and a control collar of some kind?). Disagreement or not, Stark considered them his friends, and by the end of the movie, he's lost again, unsure of what the right thing is anymore. He wants to be mad at Bucky and Cap, but he knows deep down, it's not their fault.

Cap, on the other hand, only ever fought for justice and what (he felt) was right. He basically got all of that. He proved Bucky's innocence, got Zemo arrested, broke out all of his friends. It doesn't matter to Cap that his buddies are now all outlaws. He's never cared for that. He's going to continue doing what's right, regardless of how the world sees him. We saw his being uncomfortable with Fury's direction early on in Winter Solider, and by the end of Civil War, he's back to being his own boss.

[Hirronimus]

It's a Cap 'Murica film. Cap 'Murica does not lose in his own film. Dafaq ppl.

Another reason why Stark is a flip floppity little bitch, watch IM2 and his response to Congressional Committee then.

Stark lost. Rogers won. Accords won. Captain doesn't give a fuck.

[tyven]

its hard to say that either side won. having to live in africa is not a W, fam. How long until cap has aids?

[AidenCarby]

He's in the good part of Africa, the one that's made up, with dudes who have more money than Stark.

[Hirronimus]

its hard to say that either side won. having to live in africa is not a W, fam. How long until cap has aids?

All he has to do is a fuck a virgin to get that AIDS out of his system... oh wait, I see what you mean. Dude gon' get AIDS.

[tyven]

Captain Aidserica

[Anoat]

Captain Apertheid

[kuronosan]

Captain Orwellia

[TheDirtyHobo]

Cap, on the other hand, only ever fought for justice and what (he felt) was right.

Sorry, but nope. Cap just did what he wanted to do because he's unable to play ball with the rest of them. "Oh, every piece of evidence shows my friend committing this atrocity? Better assist in his escape endangering the lives of multiple law enforcement officers because I personally believe he's innocent rather than rely on due process to prove his innocence." And he ends up caught anyways, which just gets them in more trouble and causing tons of physical injuries and property damage in the process. The important plot points of the film would've happened the exact same way if Cap had signed with the added benefit of not paralyzing Rhodie, making half the team outlaws, losing his shield, and being seen as a rogue menace by the general populace. And he would've had the flexibility to act outside the Accords still if he ever ran into a situation that genuinely warranted it (like, say, BW did). Instead he's put himself in a position that he can barely help anyone, justified or not, or he'll risk having every nation attacking him on-sight. At best he's a spoiled child who has no grasp on the concepts of subtlety and nuance required to make these decisions anyways. At worst, he's a literal psychopath.

Vision is the only person who was right in the entire movie with his line about "Our very strength invites challenge."

[AidenCarby]

Except he was right the entire time.

[Twixbars]

Sorry, but nope. Cap just did what he wanted to do because he's unable to play ball with the rest of them. "Oh, every piece of evidence shows my friend committing this atrocity? Better assist in his escape endangering the lives of multiple law enforcement officers because I personally believe he's innocent rather than rely on due process to prove his innocence." And he ends up caught anyways, which just gets them in more trouble and causing tons of physical injuries and property damage in the process. The important plot points of the film would've happened the exact same way if Cap had signed with the added benefit of not paralyzing Rhodie, making half the team outlaws, losing his shield, and being seen as a rogue menace by the general populace. And he would've had the flexibility to act outside the Accords still if he ever ran into a situation that genuinely warranted it (like, say, BW did). Instead he's put himself in a position that he can barely help anyone, justified or not, or he'll risk having every nation attacking him on-sight. At best he's a spoiled child who has no grasp on the concepts of subtlety and nuance required to make these decisions anyways. At worst, he's a literal psychopath.

Vision is the only person who was right in the entire movie with his line about "Our very strength invites challenge."

The whole reason Cap went to Bucky was because they were going to kill him on sight as opposed to bringing him in for due process. By Cap going and 'assisting with his escape and eventual capture' was to keep Bucky alive to find out if he really did do it or not (which Bucky didn't and Cap was right from the get go).

[kuronosan]

Sorry, but nope. Cap just did what he wanted to do because he's unable to play ball with the rest of them. "Oh, every piece of evidence shows my friend committing this atrocity? Better assist in his escape endangering the lives of multiple law enforcement officers because I personally believe he's innocent rather than rely on due process to prove his innocence." And he ends up caught anyways, which just gets them in more trouble and causing tons of physical injuries and property damage in the process. The important plot points of the film would've happened the exact same way if Cap had signed with the added benefit of not paralyzing Rhodie, making half the team outlaws, losing his shield, and being seen as a rogue menace by the general populace. And he would've had the flexibility to act outside the Accords still if he ever ran into a situation that genuinely warranted it (like, say, BW did). Instead he's put himself in a position that he can barely help anyone, justified or not, or he'll risk having every nation attacking him on-sight. At best he's a spoiled child who has no grasp on the concepts of subtlety and nuance required to make these decisions anyways. At worst, he's a literal psychopath.

Vision is the only person who was right in the entire movie with his line about "Our very strength invites challenge."

You suck at movies.

Cap was angry that they didn't give Bucky due process. Simple as that.

You clearly don't know his character or you wouldn't be so butthurt about the movie. Like I said, I love Tony Stank but i can't ever root against Cap because he ALWAYS DOES THE RIGHT THING.

[Anakron]

Sorry, but nope. Cap just did what he wanted to do because he's unable to play ball with the rest of them. "Oh, every piece of evidence shows my friend committing this atrocity? Better assist in his escape endangering the lives of multiple law enforcement officers because I personally believe he's innocent rather than rely on due process to prove his innocence."

I don't think Cap was acting just to protect a guilty friend--all they had was a picture to associate Bucky's guilt. Given the technology available in the MCU, I don't think the single picture makes for an open-and-shut case. Honestly, I'm pretty surprised everybody jumped on the bandwagon based on the one picture. Anyway--Cap would've done the same for any of the Avengers if he believed they were framed, and about to be killed. It was more about protecting an innocent person, than him playing favorites.

As for your later points about Cap not thinking about the "big picture," I agree. As a character driven completely by ideals, that's what he does. Would playing ball allow the Avengers to do more quantifiable good in the long run? Maybe. But was it the right thing to do? Not according to him, no.

And seeing as his life is the first he always puts on the line (e.g. Cap 1, with the fake grenade), I'd hardly call that childish. At best, naive, but you can argue that all idealists are.

[Deftscythe]

And he would've had the flexibility to act outside the Accords still if he ever ran into a situation that genuinely warranted it (like, say, BW did).

Except that Cap would never do that. He wouldn't sign and then think "I can just go back on my word later." He'd realize that having to act outside the Accords was inevitable, and never sign. If you don't get that, then like Kuro said, you don't get the character.