May 2016 Version Update - Discussion & Findings

[dasva]

So to further add to the Ambuscade thing. My strat lately has been to throw 2 autos on Taurus at the start then run to opposite side and have tanks + healing trusts hold the demon until Taurus dead then hope the autos run back fast enough to start hitting it before dread spikes but not a huge deal if not as 2 skillchains kill it from full.

Anyways a few runs lately I've noticed even at 50' away from the Taurus sometimes I'd still somehow get enmity and it would come to fuck my world up. Seemed kind of random at first but I noticed it started happening when I started trying to outdistance the demons initial cast on me since it would often use absorb attribute taking a good buff and triboxing and all wouldn't notice until I'd be like why Taurus not dead yet.

Anyways did a little playing around and seems like that little delay I got from messing around like that was what was doing it. As far as I can tell it is because the demon would end up landing a spell on me before my autos got on Taurus. So like I would hypnotize that just aggroing them puts everyone on an aggro list but not the hate list but either of them acting on you or you them puts them both on the hate list of everyone if unless pets are on them.

[Trumpy]

Did you try zooming into your chat log for that Alex/Odin fight?

but seriously folks. Did they even bother explaining why Odin and Alex would be working together suddenly when you get the master fight KI (or whatever you get to start it)?

[Tachi]

Hmm, I'm seriously thinking about trying PLD WHM GEO (Fury+Frailty) SMN (EA, Haste II, TP Bonus, TP reset) THF THF setup with THFs building TP on Alex (as it seems unable to TP move by itself and always wait Odin to do something) and SA/TA WS Fomors, Erinys strat basically. Helmwige scares me a bit but people should survive with EA.

[frodnonnag]

Hmm, I'm seriously thinking about trying PLD WHM GEO (Fury+Frailty) SMN (EA, Haste II, TP Bonus, TP reset) THF THF setup with THFs building TP on Alex (as it seems unable to TP move by itself and always wait Odin to do something) and SA/TA WS Fomors, Erinys strat basically. Helmwige scares me a bit but people should survive with EA.

My setup guess is PLD, WHM, GEO (frailty/torp), SMN x3. one or two smns conduit to take down helmwiggy, then pick off the rest.

[Mojo]

@Tachi That doesn't sound like a bad idea although I don't see why you wouldn't just melee them.

PLD WHM/SMN BLU BLU GEO GEO

I think this set up could hit the accuracy requirements without absurd builds. If the valkyrie are assisting Odin then the PLD can just focus on keeping hate there. You could take turns entrusting Attunement and keep up Vex/Wilt/Torpor/Frailty full time. It's something we have discussed and plan on trying when we get the time. Going to try using Death first though. It's worth noting that Hi-Elixirs are 20k from the Curio Vendor Moogle and can be spammed. You can get pretty close to full MP restore with one Hi-Elixir and a 1000 TP Myrkr if you have a good Myrkr build.

sets.precast.Item = {'Hi-Elixir'}
sets.precast.Item['Hi-Elixir'] = sets.midcast.Myrkr

[Damane]

@Tachi That doesn't sound like a bad idea although I don't see why you wouldn't just melee them.

PLD WHM/SMN BLU BLU GEO GEO

I think this set up could hit the accuracy requirements without absurd builds. If the valkyrie are assisting Odin then the PLD can just focus on keeping hate there. You could take turns entrusting Attunement and keep up Vex/Wilt/Torpor/Frailty full time. It's something we have discussed and plan on trying when we get the time. Going to try using Death first though. It's worth noting that Hi-Elixirs are 20k from the Curio Vendor Moogle and can be spammed. You can get pretty close to full MP restore with one Hi-Elixir and a 1000 TP Myrkr if you have a good Myrkr build.

sets.precast.Item = {'Hi-Elixir'}
sets.precast.Item['Hi-Elixir'] = sets.midcast.Myrkr

I am not sure a WHM/SMN is enough for mewing lullaby with 1 min recast on it, especially considerign once the melees are on Oidn. the THF setup sounds more promising with SA/TA and building TP on alex

[Tachi]

My setup guess is PLD, WHM, GEO (frailty/torp), SMN x3. one or two smns conduit to take down helmwiggy, then pick off the rest.

AC zerg Helmwige will be difficult although not impossible, she casts -ra III every 30~35 seconds and they one shot avatars. Assuming she is taken down, the others could maybe be killed with (many, many) Astral Flow/Thunderspark and Lunar Roar/Mewing Lullaby. On a side note, Mewing Lullaby can sleep valks with Languor up.

@Tachi That doesn't sound like a bad idea although I don't see why you wouldn't just melee them.

PLD WHM/SMN BLU BLU GEO GEO

I think this set up could hit the accuracy requirements without absurd builds. If the valkyrie are assisting Odin then the PLD can just focus on keeping hate there. You could take turns entrusting Attunement and keep up Vex/Wilt/Torpor/Frailty full time. It's something we have discussed and plan on trying when we get the time. Going to try using Death first though. It's worth noting that Hi-Elixirs are 20k from the Curio Vendor Moogle and can be spammed. You can get pretty close to full MP restore with one Hi-Elixir and a 1000 TP Myrkr if you have a good Myrkr build.

sets.precast.Item = {'Hi-Elixir'}
sets.precast.Item['Hi-Elixir'] = sets.midcast.Myrkr

The valks have a high evasion (probably requires around 1500 acc) and my setup idea has 1 GEO only, it just seems more simple to build TP on Alex who has a much lower evasion and WS the valks, it will also limit the TP feed on them.
Unlike Alex, the valks are not 100% locked on the target Odin is attacking but they always return to assist it. I'm not sure yet about would be the best approch between building hate on Odin only, building hate on Odin+the fomor we are killing, super tank everything except the fomor we are killing (may cause aggro problems after Mewing Lullaby if Odin goes passive) and building hate on everything.
About the geo bubbles you suggested, I think you can give up Attunement/Vex on the 8 other valks once Helmwige is dead.

I am not sure a WHM/SMN is enough for mewing lullaby with 1 min recast on it, especially considerign once the melees are on Oidn. the THF setup sounds more promising with SA/TA and building TP on alex

I can't speak about Odin with melees or if WHM won't be too busy with cures but 1 min recast is really sufficient if the mobs are just held. Toward the end of our last attempt, I was rotating Mewing Lullaby with other ward BPs, mostly Pavor Nocturnus on Odin in order to verify if Dread Spikes was the source of the super regen.

[arus2001]

Did you try zooming into your chat log for that Alex/Odin fight?

but seriously folks. Did they even bother explaining why Odin and Alex would be working together suddenly when you get the master fight KI (or whatever you get to start it)?

You might be able to make sense of it if you beat RoV.

[NynJa]

Spoiler: show

it doesnt explain why theyre homies though, it just says their battle is necessary to keep the cloud of darkness at bay.

Unless it did explain and i forgot it

[frodnonnag]

AC zerg Helmwige will be difficult although not impossible, she casts -ra III every 30~35 seconds and they one shot avatars. Assuming she is taken down, the others could maybe be killed with (many, many) Astral Flow/Thunderspark and Lunar Roar/Mewing Lullaby. On a side note, Mewing Lullaby can sleep valks with Languor up.


The valks have a high evasion (probably requires around 1500 acc) and my setup idea has 1 GEO only, it just seems more simple to build TP on Alex who has a much lower evasion and WS the valks, it will also limit the TP feed on them.
Unlike Alex, the valks are not 100% locked on the target Odin is attacking but they always return to assist it. I'm not sure yet about would be the best approch between building hate on Odin only, building hate on Odin+the fomor we are killing, super tank everything except the fomor we are killing (may cause aggro problems after Mewing Lullaby if Odin goes passive) and building hate on everything.
About the geo bubbles you suggested, I think you can give up Attunement/Vex on the 8 other valks once Helmwige is dead.


I can't speak about Odin with melees or if WHM won't be too busy with cures but 1 min recast is really sufficient if the mobs are just held. Toward the end of our last attempt, I was rotating Mewing Lullaby with other ward BPs, mostly Pavor Nocturnus on Odin in order to verify if Dread Spikes was the source of the super regen.

How are their magic evasion?

[NynJa]

About the 99999hp gospel at 90% (89%, but thats after dippin past 90%), with there being 9 valks, im gonna take a guess and presume that Alex does that move at every X0% for X*11111 HP, where X is the number of valks alive.

Just a guess based on the information so far

[Modoru]

About the 99999hp gospel at 90% (89%, but thats after dippin past 90%), with there being 9 valks, im gonna take a guess and presume that Alex does that move at every X0% for X*11111 HP, where X is the number of valks alive.

Just a guess based on the information so far

So what I said last page? ;___;

[Draylo]

Spoiler: show

it doesnt explain why theyre homies though, it just says their battle is necessary to keep the cloud of darkness at bay.

Unless it did explain and i forgot it

Spoiler: show

Well at the end of ROV they were together when they give the player the power to fight the cloud of darkness. Maybe they can be peaceful for some things or maybe this takes place after ROV finishes where the player is already a god and they are testing the player. I haven't done it to see any explanation or text but it could also be like the high tier battles and not actually real.

[Tachi]

How are their magic evasion?

1~2 adds resisted Mewing Lullaby / Shiva's Sleepga with Languor and a heavy pet macc set (which I could improve even more if I remove some Blood Boon pieces)
Thunderspark was heavily resisted with Languor, landed fine with BoG Languor, haven't use any real pet macc pieces.
Astral Flow went fine with Bolster Languor.
It's a lot less hard to cap macc then acc but this goes for pretty much any end game activies (SE really should do something about that).
The GEO must claim all the fomors and not just Odin if people want to set a debuff on everything (or have the PLD claim eveything and GEO cast something on PLD).

[Silenka]

Spoiler: show

it doesnt explain why theyre homies though, it just says their battle is necessary to keep the cloud of darkness at bay.

Unless it did explain and i forgot it

In Rhapsodies missions

Spoiler: show

we learn that canonically in XI fights between gods ("divine winds") keep the cloud of darkness from encroaching on Vana'diel, so maybe that's the explanation here?

[arus2001]

In Rhapsodies missions

Spoiler: show

we learn that canonically in XI fights between gods ("divine winds") keep the cloud of darkness from encroaching on Vana'diel, so maybe that's the explanation here?

Spoiler: show

That was generally what I was getting at. While the too didn't outwardly seem to get along, their conflict was still for the betterment of the world and, in turn, they opted to put aside their differences to aid the player here. I certainly wouldn't call them BFFs after this, but with the player proving they can ward off the Cloud, it isn't much of a stretch that they'd like to challenge the player for funsies. I'd chalk up any lacking lore bits to the game's current dev state, otherwise.

[Sechs]

Did you guys consider Lullaby Sleep and take them one by one? Could use BRD in place of SMN.
If you can reliably keep the valks slept, there's less "necessity" for Mewing Lullaby.
Tank, BRD, WHM, SCH, GEO, BLM.

Have the tank pull/group the valks together, have the BRD NiTro sleep.
Use Bolster and kill Helmwige and then the others one by one with skillchain+nukes. GEO and SCH can help nuking as well, BRD can land ThrenodyII.
Having Threnody2 and Frazzle1 up means you could probably survive by using INT and Malaise bubbles, with good gear and Crepes of course. Maybe entrust Focus for a bit more of additional acc.
BRD would be using Ballad, INTx2, maybe March for recasts.


Unless they have other aces in their sleeves, which sounds totally possible, the hard part of this fight is the beginning from the sound of it. Once you have less Valks to think about, the rest of the fight should hopefully flow better.

[Tachi]

I have already tried NT Horde Lullaby and got completely resisted. BLM could replace SMN in a manaburn setup if Sleepga/Breakga hit reliably and/or if someone can /SMN.

[Tachi]

Tried PLD WHM THF WAR/THF GEO SMN setup on Odin/Alex and got some good results with WSs, saw 35k Rudras, 19~25k Mistral Axes and a 44k Savage Blade on Helmwige, it has really around 350k hp.
Helmwige often turn toward melee after SA WS but only for few seconds.
Helmwige can Elemental Sforzo and... Chainspell -ra III (GEO/RUN/RDM? lol...) which annihilated everyone on 2 attempts, it must be possible to Larceny it but the window is small (basically everyone got killed after 2 -ra III, even PLD if he is not using Aegis). Now I'm curious to see what SPs the other valks can use but honestly I'm not sure if things can be worse than they are with Helmwige. Maybe Silence could land if we insist...

[Sechs]

I have already tried NT Horde Lullaby and got completely resisted. BLM could replace SMN in a manaburn setup if Sleepga/Breakga hit reliably and/or if someone can /SMN.

Completely resisted by Valks? Now that's strange... shouldn't they be dark-based? How can they be completely immune to Lullaby but yet being susceptible (even if not reliably) by Sleep?

Was yours a "resist" message or a "completely resist" one? First would hint you need more macc, second that they're plain immune to Lullaby.