Brexit: Unions are for Pussies

[Byrthnoth]

idk, is Facebook a valuable advertiser or not?

Facebook and Google are either the most valuable advertisers in the world (according to the stock exchange) or they're totally ineffectual wastes of ad spend (according to the Russian press and sometimes their own press releases)

Here, it has a wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allege...xit_referendum

The largest Brexit donor was probably a Russia funnel.

[Zealot]

Yes it makes it seem much less like paranoia when you put it that way. Sorry Byrth but i simply won't accept "Democratic votes I don't like are Russian propaganda". I'm far more inclined to believe it the result of ignorance or half-education than a 4D chess propaganda machine from Ivan Ivanosky.

I'm just saying have some faith in your average every day stupidity/apathy/ignorance and the countries own propaganda machines, they work just fine.

Ok but Russia really is and has been using social media to interfere in western democracies to an enormous extent and it's not a secret.

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[Karbuncle]

idk, is Facebook a valuable advertiser or not?

Social media is powerful, as much as any media and maybe more so due to how readily available it is and how much it is a part of major society as a whole, I don't deny that for a second.

But Facebook being a valuable advertiser doesn't even begin to prove correlation between "Democratic votes I don't like" and "Russian interference". Even proving the Russians ran fear-mongering Anti-Immigration ads on Social media during the Brexit vote period doesn't prove that its the reason Brexit happened or won. I'm sure you'd find plenty of fear-mongering adds from in-state and out of state for both sides of that debate if you looked.

Ok but Russia really is and has been using social media to interfere in western democracies to an enormous extent and it's not a secret.

One source of propaganda among hundreds... Look I'm not denying they're trying, nor would I deny that this kind of interference should be stopped if even possible, what i AM denying is that they're the reason these votes swing out of "your" favor. I'd be willing to admit maybe some small portion of the populace was influenced enough by Ivan's Facebook ads to vote like Russia wanted too and were influencing for, but not enough that I'm ready to blame Russia when a vote doesn't go my way.

As I said before so I'll just repeat, give more credit to your average every day Stupidity/Apathy/Ignorance and Nation-born propaganda... they work fine.

[Petitssk]

Social media is powerful, as much as any media and maybe more so due to how readily available it is and how much it is a part of major society as a whole, I don't deny that for a second.

But Facebook being a valuable advertiser doesn't even begin to prove correlation between "Democratic votes I don't like" and "Russian interference". Even proving the Russians ran fear-mongering Anti-Immigration ads on Social media during the Brexit vote period doesn't prove that its the reason Brexit happened or won. I'm sure you'd find plenty of fear-mongering adds from in-state and out of state for both sides of that debate if you looked.



One source of propaganda among hundreds... I'd be willing to admit maybe some small portion of the populace was influenced enough by Ivan's Facebook ads to vote like Russia wanted too and were influencing for, but not enough that I'm ready to blame Russia when a vote doesn't go my way.

As I said before so I'll just repeat, give more credit to your average every day Stupidity/Apathy/Ignorance and Nation-born propaganda... they work fine.

Given the fact that most of the young people, from what I recall, were in favour of staying with the EU, I doubt Russia had that much of an influence by using social media, but given the fact that there was a margin of not even 2% of the voters being in favour of the Brexit, it would be hard to rule out the possibility of Russia having made an actual impact nonetheless.

[Karbuncle]

Given the fact that most of the young people, from what I recall, were in favour of staying with the EU, I doubt Russia had that much of an influence by using social media, but given the fact that there was a margin of not even 2% of the voters being in favour of the Brexit, it would be hard to rule out the possibility of Russia having made an actual impact nonetheless.

True, but no more an impact than any other form of fear mongering or propaganda that was spread during that time on either side.

As I said (though you missed it in the edit, sorry!), I'm not denying they're trying(Or that they should be stopped if possible for obvious reasons), but so are a fuckload of others and its all just speculation on how many if any the Russians managed to influence as opposed to people being influenced by some other Non-Russian propaganda.

[Byrthnoth]

idk what things were promised by the anti-Brexit crowd that couldn't yet come to pass with Brexit. You are already seeing the fleeing of capital that was promised. My company has already drawn up plans to move our main EU office from London to Paris. Brexit wouldn't be an emergency for a lot of companies that currently base their EU operations out of London, so there is no need for them to preemptively move. You could still see the reasonable-person's worst case scenario come to pass with a hard Brexit.

However, I do know that Brexit hasn't happened and there haven't been roving bands of immigrants destroying London / anti-immigrant sentiment has receded with the lack of propaganda.


If you were looking to declare one side of the "debate" about Brexit dishonest, there's a clear leader here.

[Petitssk]

True, but no more an impact than any other form of fear mongering or propaganda that was spread during that time on either side.

As I said (though you missed it in the edit, sorry!), I'm not denying they're trying(Or that they should be stopped if possible for obvious reasons), but so are a fuckload of others and its all just speculation on how many if any the Russians managed to influence as opposed to people being influenced by some other Non-Russian propaganda.

No need to worry, bottom line is, if people are influenced by that kind of propaganda, they're not fit to vote on matters of such a magnitude anyway, as mentioned earlier. Doesn't matter if it's the local right-wing nut or some Russian guy spreading propaganda to influence a vote.

Foreign nations trying to manipulate national votes is a problem in itself, but with this slight a margin, it certainly is up in the air whether Russia made that difference or not - doubt there's any way to ascertain that.

[Karbuncle]

Here, it has a wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allege...xit_referendum

The largest Brexit donor was probably a Russia funnel.

Sorry it took me a moment but I felt it necessary to read entirely, as to do otherwise would not be respectful. its definitely compelling and it would be foolish to dismiss the possibility. Its mostly suspicions and conjecture though, the article poses a lot of questions we simply don't have answers for, yet. Our last section to go off of does make it seem like we'll know more soon.

"November 2018, a criminal investigation of Banks was launched after the Electoral Commission concluded "we have reasonable grounds to suspect that: Mr Banks was not the true source of the £8m reported as loans" and "Various criminal offences may have been committed."

While it doesn't change my mind that this is not enough to convince me Russia had any reasonable or tangible impact on the Brexit Vote, let alone enough to swing it in favor of leave, as I've stated outside interference should definitely not be permitted. Hopefully we reach some truths in this matter soon and its dealt with accordingly.

Side note:

"On 13 December 2017, Facebook stated that it found no significant Russian activity during Brexit"

Oof.

[Byrthnoth]

Facebook also had nothing to do with interference in the US election or genocide in Myanmar or etc. 'member?

[Karbuncle]

Facebook sure needs to pick a side.

[Gredival]

So no deal, that means hard exit? Or can they just be like we tried cancel brexit?

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There's a petition going that says that if the government can't negotiate a deal that there's a right to vote again based on changed outcomes and failed delivery. Heard this from my cousin, not sure on the specifics of how this works.

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[Andalusian girls]

I do think the UK will be better off in the long term getting out of the EU.

Again if I'm worried for anyone post-Brexit its the remaining EU countries who will bare the economical burden of the UK leaving...

why do you believe these things

[Karbuncle]

why do you believe these things

I asked first

[archibaldcrane]

why do you believe these things

Because brown people

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[Niiro]

Let's not pretend like a significant portion of the UK just wants to keep brown people out.

They want to keep out the Poles too.

[Petitssk]

Let's not pretend like a significant portion of the UK just wants to keep brown people out.

They want to keep out the Poles too.

Interestingly enough, people tend to mistrust Poles even as as nurses. For some reason, they'd rather rely on people from East Asia, such as Thailand or the Philippines. Had quite a few clients call me and mention that they don't want Poles anymore. On the other hand, the most Poles I ever met were the ones I met while working in a cookie factory.

[Fiye]

Karbuncle why are you the way you are?

[Twilight Sky]

Interestingly enough, people tend to mistrust Poles even as as nurses. For some reason, they'd rather rely on people from East Asia, such as Thailand or the Philippines. Had quite a few clients call me and mention that they don't want Poles anymore. On the other hand, the most Poles I ever met were the ones I met while working in a cookie factory.

Sounds like Pole nurses just don't give a fuck.

Anyway, I'm feeling a little bad for May. I saw the conference or whatever it's called, and after the defeat, it was basically rubbing it in that she lost. At this point, being ousted as PM might be a good thing for her.

Also, I'm hoping the UK does leave the EU(no revote) because... the people voted for this. Anything otherwise, and folks will lose confidence in their power of voting.

[Karbuncle]

Karbuncle why are you the way you are?

Because I'm not the way I'm not.

[Petitssk]

Sounds like Pole nurses just don't give a fuck.

Anyway, I'm feeling a little bad for May. I saw the conference or whatever it's called, and after the defeat, it was basically rubbing it in that she lost. At this point, being ousted as PM might be a good thing for her.

Also, I'm hoping the UK does leave the EU(no revote) because... the people voted for this. Anything otherwise, and folks will lose confidence in their power of voting.

Let's be fair, anyone post Cameron was bound to fail. I get that she had to defend the position, but she definitely was handed the baton of failure.