Brexit: Unions are for Pussies

[Koyangi]

Haha.

[Byrthnoth]

Or maybe your understanding of the role of a representative is myopic. We shouldn't elect governing experts so they vote just like the average consituent.

[Koyangi]

Shouldn't, yes. Reality says nope, case in point: Donald Trump.

[Vaspinne]

My joke, that you're taking really seriously I guess, was that idiot constituents voted in bad politicians who aren't doing the right/smart thing because they're in a representative democracy and want to keep appeasing those idiot constituents so they can get re-elected.

Which you should have gotten as a joke because that's basically identical to how politics works in America too, amirite?

[Greatguardian]

Or why not just get rid of the bloody backstop? If we crash out with no deal we have a hard border in NI within the next two weeks, yet we must agree to this backstop to prevent a hard border in what might be two years time. I don't see the logic in that at all.

Hard borders in Ireland means being firebombed by the IRA and revisiting the NI independence question under much different terms. There will be violence. Full stop.

[Sephiroth]

That's why in my posts in this thread recently, I pointed out that this issue was way too nuanced and complicated for a binary choice to be given to the people. They literally voted on "leave" vs. "remain" without any further nuance. In my reply to Salodin I gave him the examples of their polling, not that they were necessarily wrong or disingenuous.

The problem was no one knew what leave would look like and as Cameron never expected to lose the government had no plans for Brexit. I think most voters were voting leave on the basis we would be out of all EU institutions and formulate a trade deal. On paper it sounds easy as many countries have created trade deals with the EU. Having the same regulations already in place should make that easy for the UK. Something like CETA would be ideal. Yet somehow Theresa May managed to completely fuck that up and somehow almost 3 years after the referendum we still haven't had a single discussion with the EU on trade. Like WTF? This isn't what people voted leave for. The government is inept and the opposition is even more inept. It's a complete betrayal.

Hard borders in Ireland means being firebombed by the IRA and revisiting the NI independence question under much different terms. There will be violence. Full stop.

I don't think we should determine our country's future based on the possibility of terrorists attacking people. That's a terrible way to go about things.

The US and Canada have a "hard border" but it's efficient and you don't have people being firebombed there. Sure the US and Canada don't have a recent history of troubles but I'd like to think NI has moved on from that in the past 20 years.

[Fiye]

Like WTF? This isn't what people voted leave for. The government is inept and the opposition is even more inept. It's a complete betrayal.

Its not fucking betray you greedy fuck. It turns out its impossible but you're still holding your own government hostage to some demands that can't be reasonably fucking met without blowing something up.

Its been three fucking years and countless fucking votes to get your government to agree on a brexit plan and NOTHING has come out of it. There's a point I would fucking imagine you'd realize something doesn't work but apparently no.

[Salodin]

It's a lot more than just trade deals that needs to be hashed out...

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[Sephiroth]

Its not fucking betray you greedy fuck. It turns out its impossible but you're still holding your own government hostage to some demands that can't be reasonably fucking met without blowing something up.

Its been three fucking years and countless fucking votes to get your government to agree on a brexit plan and NOTHING has come out of it. There's a point I would fucking imagine you'd realize something doesn't work but apparently no.

Impossible? Says who? Making a trade deal isn't impossible. Canada and Japan have both been successful recently. Betrayal is giving people something they didn't vote for and not delivering on the manifesto that got you iinto government. There's nothing greedy about holding your politicians to account and expecting them to deliver on their promises.

Three years of nothing is why we're angry. Theresa May has gone about the whole thing the wrong way. That's what happens when you put a remainer in charge of Brexit.

[Petitssk]

Impossible? Says who? Making a trade deal isn't impossible. Canada and Japan have both been successful recently. Betrayal is giving people something they didn't vote for and not delivering on the manifesto that got you iinto government. There's nothing greedy about holding your politicians to account and expecting them to deliver on their promises.

Three years of nothing is why we're angry. Theresa May has gone about the whole thing the wrong way. That's what happens when you put a remainer in charge of Brexit.

So, you guys holding any of the people accountable who pushed public favour towards Brexit by employing outright lies, then left others to deal with their mess after the referendum? It's your own damn fault you got hit with the nationalist vibe and actually believed the guys who told you you'd be better off financially. There is no way that would have happened, and even the guys you are negotiating new deals with know that. Hell, Japan openly stated they believed that they could better conditions from you than from the EU and even then Japanese companies are getting out of Britain.

Putting a former remainer in charge had little to do with what's going on, you could have put a Jedi there and it would have been the same. The EU will make damn sure no one follows Britain's example as far as leaving the EU is concerned and they have every reason to do so seeing how the Brexiteer's escapades are affecting pretty much everyone in Europe - negatively. Believing that would not have happened is nothing short of delusional, but go ahead, be your own boss again.

On the other hand, look at the bright side, we still have one thing in common - everyone over here is quite angry as well about that squabble over there.

[TsingTao]

Putting a former remainer in charge had little to do with what's going on, you could have put a Jedi there and it would have been the same. The EU will make damn sure no one follows Britain's example as far as leaving the EU is concerned and they have every reason to do so seeing how the Brexiteer's escapades are affecting pretty much everyone in Europe - negatively. Believing that would not have happened is nothing short of delusional, but go ahead, be your own boss again.

This is the most important part to remember when someone complains that May hasn't negotiated a good deal. The EU was never going to give anyone a good deal to exit the EU...they don't want anyone to exit the EU. The divorce part of this process was always going to painful. The people that claimed otherwise were flat out lying.

Three years of nothing is why we're angry. Theresa May has gone about the whole thing the wrong way. That's what happens when you put a remainer in charge of Brexit.

The unpleasant part was always supposed to be first. Negotiating that unpleasant part of the exit was May's job. Once that was finished and the EU knew that GB was actually serious about leaving, and had at least started in earnest to do the hard work of putting back in place that was covered by EU rules (borders, inspections, all that shit that hasn't been around for decades) THEN people would begin negotiating trade deals. Unfortunately that doesn't seem likely to happen.

You can't negotiate your own trade deal with anyone until you aren't part of the EU. You aren't part of the EU (even if it's only the first steps) until you sign an exit deal. Theresa May was supposed to negotiate the exit deal so that GB could take the second step of leaving the EU. You are mad that the person who was supposed to negotiate the terms of exit isn't doing a completely different job that will (and should) be done by completely different people AFTER you actually begin to exit the EU.

Cart and horse, there's an order. You should be mad at anyone that drug their feet putting the mechanisms of free trade back in place, or the people that foolishly said you shouldn't pay the fines for leaving the EU, and wasted years. Now you're out of time.

[Greatguardian]

The problem was no one knew what leave would look like and as Cameron never expected to lose the government had no plans for Brexit. I think most voters were voting leave on the basis we would be out of all EU institutions and formulate a trade deal. On paper it sounds easy as many countries have created trade deals with the EU. Having the same regulations already in place should make that easy for the UK. Something like CETA would be ideal. Yet somehow Theresa May managed to completely fuck that up and somehow almost 3 years after the referendum we still haven't had a single discussion with the EU on trade. Like WTF? This isn't what people voted leave for. The government is inept and the opposition is even more inept. It's a complete betrayal.

k. Well it's past tense now. You don't get to just say your PM didn't do what she was elected to do and try to re-negotiate from scratch with the EU. Your options are shit, worse shit, or Remain. What do?

I don't think we should determine our country's future based on the possibility of terrorists attacking people. That's a terrible way to go about things.

The US and Canada have a "hard border" but it's efficient and you don't have people being firebombed there. Sure the US and Canada don't have a recent history of troubles but I'd like to think NI has moved on from that in the past 20 years.

This is a silly take. You're probably Welsh or something.

[Salodin]

What's the deal with Ireland? Why they mad?

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[arus2001]

We took their lucky charms.

[Petitssk]

Deadline extension up until June 30 has now been officially requested by May, though she'd be willing to go earlier assuming they can reach an agreement before then.
Meanwhile, Donald Tusk proposes doing the same and giving them as long as a year.

Jesus Christ.

[Tokitoki]

What's the deal with Ireland? Why they mad?

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The Northern Ireland/Republic of Ireland border would be the only land border if/when the UK leaves the EU. They'd have to bring back check points for inspection of people and vehicles. Knowing only a bit about the conflicts in Ireland a few decades ago, this would not be an ideal situation.

[Salodin]

The Northern Ireland/Republic of Ireland border would be the only land border if/when the UK leaves the EU. They'd have to bring back check points for inspection of people and vehicles. Knowing only a bit about the conflicts in Ireland a few decades ago, this would not be an ideal situation.

Ahahahahaha

UK is so fucked

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[Tokitoki]

TO be fair, apparently May has said that there won't be a need for checkpoints as they'll maintain the trade standards from the EU, but the trade structure is currently being debated so I'd take what she says with a grain of salt. This really sucks because flying into Belfast is the easiest way to get to my family's town, but doing that if there are conflicts is FUCKED.

Dublin is like 5 hours and Shannon is 7+ hours. Belfast is only 3 hours.

[Petitssk]

Currently getting quite a bit of resistance against another extension from a multitude of countries; live updates by The Guardian

Considering that there were similar reactions before the last vote that required all 27 nations to vote yes, I'm not entirely sure what to make of this, getting a mild "good cop, bad cop"-vibe nonetheless. Current consensus is that letting GB participate in the next EU elections should not be made possible, not in the least because the most common expectation is what this guy so aptly, albeit slightly incorrectly, put

If a long extension leaves us stuck in the EU we should be as difficult as possible. We could veto any increase in the budget, obstruct the putative EU army and block Mr Macron’s integrationist schemes.

[Salodin]

GB doesnt like being treated like a lowly colony lolol

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