Local Elections

[Gredival]

Why do you keep referencing old ass elections when going moderate is what allowed Trump to get re-elected?

Claiming the center got in Clinton and Obama while ignoring centrists lost two of the most recent three national elections is pretty damn galling.

You'd have to prove that they lost because they weren't progressive enough. That is a debate that rages on, but I think that the more progressive candidate would have lost by more in both instances (Bernie would have been stomped, IDK who the alternative to Kamala would have been if we had a full primary). Trump won in the blue wall states by unlocking the Reagan Democrats.

McGovern and Dukakis lost precisely because they were too progressive. Nixon and Bush won those elections by turning to white fright. And that's the exact tactic that you open yourself up to with a candidate that says the police exist to uphold white supremacy and that Thanksgiving should be canceled because it papers over the genocide of indigenous (Hong).

(Plus I even noted that Obama 08 is a mixed case for moderate vs. progressive)

It's not win/loss record... it's VORP.

Can't really claim the D's were in power with a perpetual 50/50 split and economic downturn being the direct result of conservative policies and botched covid response, but I'll just circle back to my last post.

The average voter doesn't understand control of government. They just understand who someone else tells them to blame.

[Gredival]

Again, geographies matter. The Reagan Democrats I'm talking about who abandoned the party in the 80s for being too liberal?

They were mostly in the midwest... where the DSA lost.

...many of the working-class, religious voters that voted for Reagan in 1980 and 1984 have since migrated away from the Democratic Party. Some have found a home in the GOP. But a huge number are now independents, people who tend to be socially liberal but fiscally and economically conservative. Trump won them overwhelmingly, the CNN exit data show: Trump 48%, Clinton 42%.

Many were surprised on election night when Trump managed to breach the so-called "Blue Wall" of Democratic Party-ruled states in the Midwest. But our final IBD/TIPP Poll should have been a tip-off: It showed Trump with a huge 48% to 38% lead in the Midwest. The Washington Post notes that of the 700 counties that voted twice for Obama, a third flipped to Trump this time — many of them in the Midwest.

https://www.investors.com/politics/e...agan-majority/

Oh and yes, Biden being moderate definitely did win him that election. He basically won by taking back those Reagan Democrats and creating an inverse bloc of Biden Republicans... the affluent white suburbanite who no longer feels comfortable with the modern GOP. The people you say don't matter enough.

Like the Reagan Democrats, they’re heavily white and live in suburbs. But where the Reagan Dems are blue-collar and culturally conservative, Greenberg sees the Biden Republicans as more affluent, highly educated and supportive of diversity. Historically, they identified with the Republican Party as their political home. But the leaders who were supposed to fight for them seem to care more about white grievance and keeping out immigrants; seem to care more about social issues and “owning the libs” than about child-care payments and college tuition. They don’t consider themselves Democrats—at least not yet—but they are voting for them, delivering them majorities in the House and Senate, and making Joe Biden just the fourth candidate in the past century to defeat an incumbent president.

Now, with the support of Biden Republicans shored up—at least for the time being—Joe Biden is embarking on an audacious gambit that’s gone largely unnoticed, but, if successful, could kneecap national Republicans for a decade: Recapturing the support of the Reagan Democrats.

“Biden is very self-consciously campaigning for Macomb County-type, white working-class voters [for whom] race is not the only thing driving their vote, but who went to Trump [in 2016] because of globalization and their belief that Democrats are not fighting for American workers,” says Greenberg, now based in Washington, D.C., where he continues to work in political polling. “‘America First’ rhetoric was a part of Biden’s campaign. It’s still part of ‘build back better.’”

https://www.politico.com/news/magazi...eenberg-473330

[Tyrath]

You'd have to prove that they lost because they weren't progressive enough.

If only they did a post mortem that they then decided not to reveal to anyone.

Also honestly don't give a shit about McGovern and Dukakis. We don't live in that world anymore.

[Krandor]

If you're talking about the 2024 election they finally released it a few months ago

[Gredival]

If only they did a post mortem that they then decided not to reveal to anyone.

Also honestly don't give a shit about McGovern and Dukakis. We don't live in that world anymore.

Except that I pointed to a voting demographic trend in 16 and 20 that can be linked back to those elections.

Progress goes much slower than you would like.

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[Mrbeansman]

The average voter is a shithead accept it.

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[Tyrath]

Except that I pointed to a voting demographic trend in 16 and 20 that can be linked back to those elections.

Progress goes much slower than you would like.

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It's actually going backwards because that's where your centrist strategy leads. The right takes leaps and you want to keep shifting right to appeal to the moderates.

[Mrbeansman]

It's actually going backwards because that's where your centrist strategy leads. The right takes leaps and you want to keep shifting right to appeal to the moderates.

Acting like progressives not voting isn't the reason this keep happening.

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[Tyrath]

Acting like the reason they don't vote is that the "progressive" party act like republicans. I think it's stupid not to vote, but there's more than one group at fault here.

[Mrbeansman]

The average voter is a shithead accept it.

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.

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[Meresgi]

People may have a disdain for people from K Street here (mirroring the anti-elitism that propelled Trump's own base), but generally I think professionals have expertise that we should defer to.

We talking the same people who said Abdul couldn't win? Mamdani didn't stand a chance? Kamala was a shoe in? That economy was great and everyone suffering was just "vibes"

Curious how when a progressive wins by 5%ish or so it's "so narrow! So close! Movement is over and slowing" and when one loses by 5% it's "THEY GOT FUCKING WASTED! Look how bad they are doing, 5% loss? It's like they weren't even in the race!!!". Over and over again.

Would much rather we field a progressive candidate who pushes for healthcare for all, abolishing ICE, free education and other "progressive" (come the fuck on, these aren't progressive) views then another Kamala who will start off strong, get some momentum and then shit all over themselves and then it will be "the voters" fault when they fail.

[Kaslo]

We talking the same people who said Abdul couldn't win? Mamdani didn't stand a chance? Kamala was a shoe in? That economy was great and everyone suffering was just "vibes"

Curious how when a progressive wins by 5%ish or so it's "so narrow! So close! Movement is over and slowing" and when one loses by 5% it's "THEY GOT FUCKING WASTED! Look how bad they are doing, 5% loss? It's like they weren't even in the race!!!". Over and over again.

Would much rather we field a progressive candidate who pushes for healthcare for all, abolishing ICE, free education and other "progressive" (come the fuck on, these aren't progressive) views then another Kamala who will start off strong, get some momentum and then shit all over themselves and then it will be "the voters" fault when they fail.

Too be fair, we still don't know if Abdul can win.