SNES Classic - Sold Out Everywhere, Round 2

[Roranora]

I would put it this way: if you are not already using a sync stripper (or other solution to get CSYNC instead of sync-over-composite-video), worrying about your chip revision is a waste of time. CSYNC vs. sync-over-composite-video is a difference that you can see without any zooming at all (e.g. checkerboard patterns).

What do I do to ensure this?

The SCART cables I bought said CSYNC. Um and the SCART-to-BNC cables have the separate sync. I wonder if I bought something I don't need. I won't be able to test for myself for another week and change.

[Spider-Dan]

Which consoles are you talking about, and where did you buy the cables from?

[Roranora]

my SNES, main thing RGB-ready as it is. tho i suppose add the Genesis 1 with a pending stereo mod.

#1. SCART cables from reputable ebay seller in Poland. I had been waiting on retrogamingcables.co.uk for a few weeks, eventually settling for ebay. But seriously look at that feedback and account. I also bought the Genesis 1/Mega Drive 1 RGB SCART cables from this seller too.

#2. http://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/ all the BNC stuff

(female SCART-to-BNC male (x4), BNC male to male cables to daisy chain the 2 PVMs, and some extra PVM stuff like BNC-to-RCA adapters for a composite or a component video connection)

I bought 2 of each SCART-to-BNC option, sync separator option and cheaper version. I don't yet understand when I'll need to use which cables for which console, or in what instances it doesn't matter. Any clarity here would be lovely.


Re modding:
Kindly note I insist upon doing this Genesis 1 audio mod with the headphone jack option. The cables purchased support this; I can probably handle this mod no problem.

The RGB mods (NES front loader x1, NES top loader x1, N64 x2) I'll probably pay a modder. There's a dude or two in my area but I'm not really sold just yet.

[Roranora]

For the unfortunate situation that is the NTSC GameCube, I have 2 S-Video and 1 Component for my 3 cubes, and that will have to do fine. I have 3 GameCubes for hosting Double Dash LAN parties that have yet to happen. (*'-'); My only GameCube modding-of-sorts aspiration is a new boot disc for my GameBoy Player that handles 240p (and it'd offer Test Suite); I have a long way to go here though. I have a fair amount of GameBoy, GameBoy Color, and GBA games, and I love the GB Player.

Those GameCube component cables are a ridiculous situation. I should be content I ordered the 1 I did a decade ago, but having 3 now would be p cool. The component cube will probably go on the HD CRT; it looks pretty damn good.

I also have this SCART-to-YUV converter for one of the component inputs on the HD CRT too. It will take some potentiometer (?) adjusting. I've thought one of the RGB-modded N64s could use the other component input to fill in things.

kv-40xbr800:

[Spider-Dan]

my SNES, main thing RGB-ready as it is. tho i suppose add the Genesis 1 with a pending stereo mod.

#1. SCART cables from reputable ebay seller in Poland. I had been waiting on retrogamingcables.co.uk for a few weeks, eventually settling for ebay. But seriously look at that feedback and account. I also bought the Genesis 1/Mega Drive 1 RGB SCART cables from this seller too.

#2. http://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/ all the BNC stuff

(female SCART-to-BNC male (x4), BNC male to male cables to daisy chain the 2 PVMs, and some extra PVM stuff like BNC-to-RCA adapters for a composite or a component video connection)

I bought 2 of each SCART-to-BNC option, sync separator option and cheaper version. I don't yet understand when I'll need to use which cables for which console, or in what instances it doesn't matter. Any clarity here would be lovely.

Here's the thing: if you intend to use that sync-separator SCART-to-BNC adapter, then you need a SCART cable with 5V wired to pin 8... and only retrogamingcables.co.uk guarantees that all their cables have power wired to that pin.

For comparison's sake, I have SCART cables for SNES, Jaguar, PSX, Xbox, Saturn (x2), and DC (x2). I didn't buy any of them from retrogamingcables.co.uk, and only one (my second Saturn cable) has power run to that pin. So I'm potentially going to have to re-buy all of my SCART cables (except Saturn) again if I want CSYNC for my BNC setup.

Now, it is possible that you can have cables that are wired to pull CSYNC directly so you don't need a sync separator; several consoles are able to produce direct CSYNC output. But if they don't, you'll be stuck with sync-over-composite-video, which is noticeably worse.

Also: why'd you buy two copies of each of the SCART-to-BNC adapters? One for each PVM?

---

On a side note, a quick primer on sync (which I've never seen explained very well):

There are two important signals that are used to synchronize the timing of the video display: horizontal sync (Hsync) and vertical sync (Vsync). On a standard VGA connector (480p or higher, so ED to HD), these signals are separate, and on two different wires.

But on standard definition displays, Hsync and Vsync are always combined into one signal: composite sync, or CSYNC. (The word "composite" means "combined from different elements," which will be relevant later). This CSYNC signal, which is just Hsync+Vsync, can be transmitted several ways:

- on its own wire, which is appropriately just called CSYNC
- on the "luma" wire that carries the information for the brightness of the picture; this is called "sync-over-luma," and is usually used for S-Video connectors that have one wire for luma (brightness) and one wire for chroma (color)
- on the "green" wire in an RGB connector; this is called "sync-over-green" or "RGsB" (and is uncommon with the equipment we are discussing)
- lastly, when the entire video information is carried on one wire: the yellow RCA cable we all know. Because this one wire carries all the brightness and color data, as well as the Hsync+Vsync data, it is called "composite" video, and the sync signal from here is called "sync-over-composite." (Strictly speaking, this should properly be called "composite-sync-over-composite-video," which would be a little less confusing than the "composite sync" and "sync-over-composite" terminology that everyone uses now.)

And if we have a connector (like SCART) that has three separate wires for RGB, but (for whatever reason) does not have a separate sync signal, then the next best step is to use the sync signal from the composite video wire (which, remember, always contains ALL of the video signals mashed together) that's also in SCART. But the sync signal from composite video is noisy due to all the other signals on that wire... which is why you want a sync stripper to filter out everything but the CSYNC signal.

Hope that makes sense.

edit: slight clarification

[Roranora]

Also: why'd you buy two copies of each of the SCART-to-BNC adapters? One for each PVM?

Yeah, just to have enough to max out the possibilities. Two PVMs with 2 BNC inputs each.

I had read the bit about pin 8, and I wanted to buy cables from them but they seem to seldom restock right now. And I only understand how the cable needs pin 8 wired with 5-12V; I don't understand why exactly I would intend to use the sync separator. Maybe for the 1CHIP 03 SNES revision.

Hope that makes sense.

It's all still pretty confusing, especially sync. I'll re-read it a few times. Thanks Dan!

[Spider-Dan]

I had read the bit about pin 8, and I wanted to buy cables from them but they seem to seldom restock right now. And I only understand how the cable needs pin 8 wired with 5-12V; I dont understand why exactly I would intend to use the sync separator.

In a SCART cable, you have a pin for red (R, pin 15), a pin for green (G, pin 11), and a pin for blue (B, pin 7). You also have pin 20, which can either be composite video (all the video data, like the yellow RCA cable), or the CSYNC signal (which, again, is just Hsync+Vsync, nothing else).

- If your console is capable of outputting CSYNC directly (Genesis, Jaguar, NeoGeo, NTSC SNES, JPN Saturn), and the SCART cable is wired properly, then you are fine! You will get a crisp image.
- If your console is not capable of outputting CSYNC directly (or the cable is not wired properly and puts composite video on pin20 instead of CSYNC), but your display is capable of using the (inferior) sync signal from composite video (i.e. sync-over-composite), then you're still mostly OK. You will have a worse picture, but everything will still work.
- But if your display cannot use sync-over-composite, and instead requires the clean CSYNC signal, then you need a sync separator or you won't get a picture. And if you have a cable that has a sync separator that requires power, and it doesn't get power (e.g. from pin 8), then you will get no picture through that cable.

So long story short: if your PVMs can use sync-over-composite, you can always fall back to the SCART-to-BNC without a separator, and the picture will show (but be worse).

Maybe these pictures will help:

Spoiler: show

CSYNC cable:


Sync-over-composite cable:


Sync-over-composite ran through a sync separator:

[Roranora]

That helps a lot, pictures especially.

I was just reading about SCART switchers; do you use one?

If the SCART switcher has a built-in sync separator, one could obtain a clean CSYNC that way regardless of whether or not a console outputs CSYNC directly, right? Then output to a passive adapter (SCART-to-either BNC to a PVM or the mini DIN to a Framemeister).

This seems like it could save you from having to buy pin-8-powered cables.

[Spider-Dan]

Well, for the Framemeister I bought a SCART-to-mini-DIN adapter that has a separate mini-USB plug for power. I suppose the same thing could exist for SCART-to-BNC, but I haven't seen it.

I don't use SCART switchers (I only hook up systems as needed, otherwise they are in storage totes) but if there is one with a built-in sync separator, that should work.

[Sho]

It'll work. And with that, just be sure you aren't getting any JP-21 cables if you are looking into a SCART Switcher They are pinned differently and could damage your system(s) if you try to connect them to a female SCART to mini DIN or SCART switcher.

This guy does good work for the community:

http://retrorgb.com/gscartsw.html

He designed it himself and has a deal with a manufacturing plant in China to build to spec. Has an integrated sync stripper as well. However, he takes orders/payment up until he has enough to place a large order with the manufacturer, then has them all processed at once. If you're OK with this, then you're in for a quality product.

[Melena]

In news that should shock no one. http://kotaku.com/nintendo-announces...ium=Socialflow

[Ratatapa]

Time to make money!

[Nitsuki]

Ummm definitely preordering 2 this time around. Keeping one for sure. Damn that's a beautiful lineup despite only 1 MMX title.

[Kaisha]

That is a really good fucking line-up. Can't wait to not see it in stores again.

Spoiler: show

Should have dropped Super Punch-Out for Tetris Attack or Kirby's Avalanche though.

[bori]

No Chrono Trigger? Damn. Despite the awesome line up of games, I'd really rather just play it on my Switch.

[Ratatapa]

No Chrono Trigger? Damn. Despite the awesome line up of games, I'd really rather just play it on my Switch.

Can't have all games

[Kaslo]

No Chrono Trigger? Damn. Despite the awesome line up of games, I'd really rather just play it on my Switch.

The prospect of these coming to Switch is what is tempering my excitement.

[Melena]

The prospect of these coming to Switch is what is tempering my excitement.

Don't they charge like 10 bucks a SNES game if I recall my WII VC Pricing? If so, if there's 8 or more games you were wanting anyways, may be better to go with this.

[TummieGaruda]

I am not sure how popular this one will be but we will see. $80 cost most likely due to two controllers vs one on the NES classic. Might have to snag one to see if I can sell with the NES Classic in a bunddle.

[Anoat]

SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY