2016 USA Presidential election thread II: And. Here. We. Go!

[Olo401]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...ng-models.html

[Athas]

At least he'll be tough on the Tobacco industry?

[thetruepandagod]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...ng-models.html

Are people not aware that this still happens right now in both the modelling and film industry?

[myreality]

https://twitter.com/armandoarrieta/s...rc=twsrc%5Etfw

The Trump insult list - two pages in today's NYT:

Really hard to read the twitter one. So here is the direct link to the main site where everything is nice and easy to read.


http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...ults.html?_r=0

The 281 People, Places and Things Donald
Trump Has Insulted on Twitter: A Complete List

[Aerin]

In regards to healthcare going up, yes that sucks. For the majority (about 70%) who are on Obamacare now it won't matter, the government will pick up the rate hikes, which is still a sore issue but at least those people don't have to worry. The rest will depend on what their income level is.

Obamacare was built on 3 things:

- No more pre-existing conditions
- Everyone had to buy in
- Subsidies for those who couldn't afford it (with money given back from the insurance industry since they're also making more money with more customers)

Looks like most experts are saying this is because the original premiums were too low and the insurance conpanies have taken on a lot of people who are actually sick, the system depends on young people who are healthy to buy in.

In any case, its success or failure greatly depends on Congress. Repealing it without anything to take its place would fuck even more people over. Fixing it will take actual work from both parties...

[archibaldcrane]

Well, that's what happens when you let a for-profit industry handle its own pricing structures and then compel everyone to buy.

Many exchange insurers have lost a ton of money so far. The problem isn't that insurers can, at most, keep 20% of premiums for non-medical expenses (administration and advertising and profit) it's that medical care and prescription drugs are obscenely expensive in the US.

Even if you wiped out all insurance profits it wouldn't help that much.

Edit: rereading your comment, I realize you may be talking about the entire medical industry, not just insurance companies.

[Day]

Yeah if by government is gonna pay for it you mean the taxpayers, probably the same people who make just a little too much to get the assistance, probably the same people who's premiums/deductibles have gone up while coverage went down, or maybe we can "borrow" from medicare some more. Shit is a disaster. At least 20 million more people have "insurance" though right? With their 3k deductibles and shit ass coverage, have to get hit by a car to need it.

[Day]

those damn sick people buying insurance we didn't plan for this

prescription drugs are retarded expensive. I watched the epipen hearing before the oversight comittee and almost lost my damn mind. these fucks have no idea where the money is going, the pharmacy doesn't know, the drug manufacturer doesn't seem to know, congress has no clue...

heres 10 min of infuriating back and forth, between congressman carter (pharmacist) and the epipen lady, really good stuff if you care about drug prices.

[kuronosan]

Yeah if by government is gonna pay for it you mean the taxpayers, probably the same people who make just a little too much to get the assistance, probably the same people who's premiums/deductibles have gone up while coverage went down, or maybe we can "borrow" from medicare some more. Shit is a disaster. At least 20 million more people have "insurance" though right? With their 3k deductibles and shit ass coverage, have to get hit by a car to need it.

That's the very reason why it's a "disaster": states were given the option to not expand above the insurance gap, forcing the vast majority of people who make too much money to be eligible for a subsidy but aren't poor enough to be eligible for state benefits to basically go without insurance or pay ungodly premiums. The vast majority of people actually didn't see too much of a difference in coverage prices.

The problem is the burden falls on the middle class to split the difference, so if you're poor you already don't have money to afford health care but hey at least you get a premium and if you make enough money then private insurance is great. If you happen to fall in between, welp, you're fucked.

This would have been mitigated with an SP system or a Public Option, that was compromised out of the law despite being far more sustainable and necessary than what we have now.

Obama stated that patients could keep their coverage because he probably banked on insurance companies doing the right thing and providing plans that were on par with what people were paying before. The problem with that is the minimum coverage guidelines allowed CEOs to basically go "Hey, we're giving MORE service so let's up the premium price. What's that? You don't like that price? Okay, we can give you a lower one but your deductible is so ridiculously high that you might as well not fucking have insurance in the first place".

The insurance industry in general is what's broken. It's a fucking lottery filled with money that rarely goes towards the people who really need to be treated by people who really can't afford to be treated but rarely get sick.

I mean, shit. It shouldn't cost $15,000 to have a baby. That's ridiculous. It's even more ridiculous that a generic costs like $6 with a prescription but when administered at a hospital by staff they charge insurance 10-20x that amount.

The ACA is a bandaid that should have been a suture in a country where people who have scratches are treated better than people who are bleeding to death.

[Zealot]

Many exchange insurers have lost a ton of money so far. The problem isn't that insurers can, at most, keep 20% of premiums for non-medical expenses (administration and advertising and profit) it's that medical care and prescription drugs are obscenely expensive in the US.

Even if you wiped out all insurance profits it wouldn't help that much.

Edit: rereading your comment, I realize you may be talking about the entire medical industry, not just insurance companies.

I indeed was, but your points remain valid.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[archibaldcrane]

Remember that this insurance still provides no cost yearly physicals, ob/gyn well-woman visits, no cost birth control, and a variety of other no cost preventative care.

https://www.healthcare.gov/coverage/...care-benefits/

So scoff all you want about 20 million more insured, but that's 20 million people who have access to way more basic care than they had before at no cost.

[arus2001]

Yeah, fuckers should just die like Darwin intended.

[Aerin]

I think it's only 8-10 million more insured at this point.

The thing is that even some in the health industry wanted things to change back in 2007, they saw that what was going on wasn't sustainable. I'm trying to find some numbers but what archi said is right, the insurance industry is paying through the nose as well. Even if we did switch to a single payer system, it might help for a little while but the underlying problem would still be there.

As far as I know the only other proposal (at least that got some time in the media) was McCains suggestion (I dare not call it a plan) to give vouchers of some sort?

[Day]

That's the very reason why it's a "disaster": states were given the option to not expand above the insurance gap, forcing the vast majority of people who make too much money to be eligible for a subsidy but aren't poor enough to be eligible for state benefits to basically go without insurance or pay ungodly premiums. The vast majority of people actually didn't see too much of a difference in coverage prices.

The problem is the burden falls on the middle class to split the difference, so if you're poor you already don't have money to afford health care but hey at least you get a premium and if you make enough money then private insurance is great. If you happen to fall in between, welp, you're fucked.

This would have been mitigated with an SP system or a Public Option, that was compromised out of the law despite being far more sustainable and necessary than what we have now.

Obama stated that patients could keep their coverage because he probably banked on insurance companies doing the right thing and providing plans that were on par with what people were paying before. The problem with that is the minimum coverage guidelines allowed CEOs to basically go "Hey, we're giving MORE service so let's up the premium price. What's that? You don't like that price? Okay, we can give you a lower one but your deductible is so ridiculously high that you might as well not fucking have insurance in the first place".

The insurance industry in general is what's broken. It's a fucking lottery filled with money that rarely goes towards the people who really need to be treated by people who really can't afford to be treated but rarely get sick.

I mean, shit. It shouldn't cost $15,000 to have a baby. That's ridiculous. It's even more ridiculous that a generic costs like $6 with a prescription but when administered at a hospital by staff they charge insurance 10-20x that amount.

The ACA is a bandaid that should have been a suture in a country where people who have scratches are treated better than people who are bleeding to death.

I completely agree with all this. Not trying to place full blame on Obama, I know it come across that way but he does deserve a bit of the blame.

I edited above post and touched on prescription prices, agree there as well.

No cost BC and pre-existing conditions are good things we got with this, but the plans these people are buying (bronze/silver) are not good, I"m sorry.

[Aerin]

I mean, shit. It shouldn't cost $15,000 to have a baby. That's ridiculous.

Fun story, I live in Washington state, it cost $30k to have our daughter without insurance 4 years ago. We thought she was insured but it turned out it was only prenatal care. The insurance didn't tell us or the hospital they weren't going to cover it until 5 months later, at which point it was too late to try and get state insurance.

The anesthesiologist cost $10k (the guy who was in the room for 5 minutes), and the hospital room cost a few grand per day. There was also a news story up here about a hospital recently charging a father to hold his newborn daughter.

[Day]

The whole thing is fucked. There's no competition in the prescription drug market, and clearly not enough regulation to compensate for that. and do we even need these health insurance companies? fml I would have been better off stuffing money in a jar all my life so why don't we just do it as a nation and get it over with. That epipen hearing was one of the first things I've ever watched both sides of the aisle agree on and they still can't be fucked to even try to fix it. Someone is making fucking bank off our health and I can't even figure out who it is anymore.

[Xno Kappa]

I always feel lucky as hell me and the fam are covered by TriCare when I hear about some of the ridiculous deductibles everybody else deals with.

[Anoat]

A friend of mine paid a midwife $300 and gave birth at her home in some kind of specialty birthing tub. Worked out great in this instance and I'm happy for her but if there were any kind of complications, it could have ended badly for her and the baby.

[Ezek]

Honestly, I'm going to enjoy the salt regardless of who wins. You better believe the tears will drown out the internet for a few weeks regardless of it being Trump or Hillary that loses.

[Ksandra]

The Obamacare shit makes me sad. All the terribleness that is the result of it comes from a completely ineffective congress. I am so glad they got rid of the preexisting conditions. That is huge. The thing I'm most frustrated about is that they knew it wasn't a great plan. From day one of it being passed I wish there was more effort to improve it. Because that's what it needs. Better regulations so people aren't getting fucked over by it.