2016 USA Presidential election thread II: And. Here. We. Go!

[Tyrath]

I doubt Stewart would've done any more than the other comedians have done.

But I am sure he regretted his timing once Trump became a thing.

[Andalusian girls]

Oh? How do you figure? Was it his failed economic policies? His union busting? The way he ignored AIDS and defunded research? The explosion of drugs and subsequent racist drug laws? The way he closed all government-funded mental health clinics? The failed crime policies that led to a crime explosion? The multiple times he negotiated with terrorists? The tax cuts and his subsequent raiding of the funds that are the reason Social Security is a mess today? The administrative corruption ummatched by any President, even Warren G. Harding? The opposal to ending apartheid? The Reagan Doctrine that ended up creating al-Qaeda? The ignoring of atrocities commited by Saddam Hussein? Supplying weapons to our enemies? Supporting the restoration of a dictatorship in Nicaragua over the Democratically elected government? Costing 241 Marines their lives in Beirut and invading Grenada to try and get attention away from it? Maybe the bombing of the USS Stark, which remains the only unanswered attack in U.S. history? His lies about his war experience? The way he said he wouldn't raise taxes and did? His record deficits? The explosion of the size and cost of government? The economic policies that put millions out of work and directly resulted in the accumulation of wealth by the 1% that we see today? Or maybe it's his record-setting defense spending in order to counter the Soviet Union, which even military and intelligence strategists at the time said was destined to fail eventually with or without our intervention?

There's so much to choose from, so you tell me which part of that exactly makes Reagan one our top 10 or top 5 Presidents ever.

i'll be stuck in a meeting for several hours but will respond in tedious depth later if Maroot doesn't beat me to the punch, but allow me one brief entry into the fray.

you blame the Reagan tax cuts and the raiding of the social security trust fund for the reason social security is the mess it is today. but in 1983 Reagan instituted a payroll tax increase for social security and Medicare (as well as raising the age of retirement to 67 to reflect lengthening life expectancies) that constituted one of the largest peacetime tax increases in history, and these tax increases caused what was a remedial pay-as-you-go system to produce revenues exceeding expenditures from their passing until 2009. the pejoratively termed raiding of the social security trust fund stems from every administration, from Reagan to Obama, using these surpluses to purchase non-tradable T-bonds thereby funding deficit spending. so it is right to say social security revenue is being used to finance government operations, but assuming the Treasury does not default what is owed will be repaid, with the added benefit of compounded interest.

the fundamental reason for social security's insolvency both in 1983 and 2016 is the shift in American demographics since 1935; a benefits package triggering at 65 is easier to maintain when the average life expectancy is 63 and you have 4 rather than 3 active workers subsidizing every retiree. it was not the fault of any lawmaker or administrator, any Republican or Democrat, and if anything Reagan's 1983 reformation preserved it for another generation while adding Hamiltonian fiscal flexibility to day-to-day government operations.

[myreality]

As much as I love Jon Stewart, if he was all that was standing between us and Trump, then we deserve Trump.

I fully believe that John Stewart would bring a rationality to this disaster that decides our future. I remember many, MANY people watched him to help straighten out the bullshit in the media much in the same way John Oliver does in his segments last Week Tonight. Not to mention the nation's critical thinking skills seem to be on the low side so he would have more influence than you suspect.

With that said, I agree that a comedy central show that has this much influence is sad indeed.

[Andalusian girls]

oh and it ought be remembered the legislation represented what is in retrospect an astounding bipartisan compromise on the largest and most politically charged of entitlement programs. the Speaker of the House was one Tip O'Neill, a man who was probably the most influential Speaker of the past fifty years, and he commanded a dominant 243 seat Democratic majority.

[myreality]

I doubt Stewart would've done any more than the other comedians have done.

But I am sure he regretted his timing once Trump became a thing.

I don't know, he was held in extremely high regards and respected greatly.

[Zealot]

i'll be stuck in a meeting for several hours but will respond in tedious depth later if Maroot doesn't beat me to the punch, but allow me one brief entry into the fray.

you blame the Reagan tax cuts and raiding of the social security fund for the reason social security is the mess it is today. but in 1983 Reagan instituted a payroll tax increase for social security and Medicare that constituted one of the largest peacetime tax increases in history, and these tax increases caused what was a remedial pay-as-you-go system to produce revenues exceeding expenditures from their passing to 2009. the pejoratively termed raiding of the social security trust fund stems from every administration, from Reagan to Obama, using these surpluses to purchase non-tradable T-bonds thereby funding deficit spending. so it is right to say social security revenue is being used to finance government operations, but presuming the Treasury does not default what is owed will be repaid in time, with the added benefit of compounded interest.

the fundamental reason for social security's insolvency both in 1983 and 2016 is the shift in American demographics since 1935; a benefits package triggering at 65 is easier to maintain when the average life expectancy is 63 and you have 4 rather than 3 active workers subsidizing every retiree. it was not the fault of any lawmaker or administrator, any Republican or Democrat, and if anything Reagan's 1983 reformation preserved it for another generation while adding Hamiltonian fiscal flexibility to day-to-day government operations.

Except that the revenue from the payroll tax hike you're referencing was never actually invested into Social Security, and despite that the government continued spending from it. Furthermore, the bipartisan agreement to approve the bill was reached because Reagan sold it as solving the "imminent" bankruptcy of Social Security, despite being advised that it would be at least 20 years before that happened. Had Congress been accurately informed of the situation by the President's administration, I would love to know how many of them would have still been on board with it.

Edit: I'm not saying Reagan is the sole reason Social Security is so depleted, every President and Congress since has continued the spending practices, but it was his policies that began it.

[Andalusian girls]

as stated the tax increases produced a revenue over expenses surplus that was invested in non-marketable Treasury bonds. as social security was paying out the promised benefits the alternative to using this surplus to buy Treasury bonds would have been to place it under the mattress. in the manner used it instead funded government expenditures through deficit financing and will ultimately result in increased social security funds as a result of the interest paid on it (rather than decreased funds had mattresses been employed and inflation nibbled away at it). yes, this amounts to the government borrowing from the trust fund but it's fairly basic fiscal maneuvering and there is no reason to believe it will default on this debt as the Treasury has never missed a debt payment in its 227 years and the bonds are non-marketable meaning they will never be held by anyone but the U.S. Treasury.

i will allow his sausage was as ugly as anyone's. but i'd rather a president fix a structural issue coming 20 years down the line than the present circumstance where we are aware that the trust fund will be depleted in 2034 and social security will pay only 79% of benefits and entirely nothing is being done about it.

[Headspace]

Accuser in Trump's child rape case breaking her silence tonight.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tyrath]

I don't know, he was held in extremely high regards and respected greatly.

Yeah but none of that reaches the deplorables.

[Zealot]

I just don't see eye-to-eye with you on this, Andalusian. I suppose less money has been taken out of social security than it otherwise would have, but the revenue generated by his payroll tax and subsequent bond investing has been used to fund the massively exploded federal spending and cover continual tax cuts for the wealthy. We could have just not done that, or put in the tax increase and bond investment AND not tripled the deficit by ramping up spending and cutting taxes on the wealthy and corporations. You can't get credit for fixing a problem if you create two more.

[Fondue]

PA next!

[myreality]

Yeah but none of that reaches the deplorables.

I think the lack of any substantial news besides the "maybe this, maybe that" is driving people to Trumps side. Having someone articulate the sheer absurdity of it all could in fact help people navigate on what to really and listen to. He definitely had the ratings to reach a number of people.


Brb, gotta clean up my John Stewart shrine. /em removes chains.....*sigh*

[Waraji]

Life under a Trump Presidency:

Mississippi church burned, vandalized with 'Vote Trump'

[myreality]

Life under a Trump Presidency:

Mississippi church burned, vandalized with 'Vote Trump'

Democrats did that! Don't be fooled!

[Tyrath]

Brb, gotta clean up my John Stewart shrine. /em removes chains.....*sigh*

If you love him so much spell his name right

[kuronosan]

Ferk sake. Like there's no correlation between BIBLE STATES and Trump voters. >:/

[Zealot]

Democrats did that! Don't be fooled!

Honestly? I wouldn't be surprised.

[myreality]

If you love him so much spell his name right

Can't run my dreams!

[Aerin]

I can post maps with colors too.

[myreality]

I can post maps with colors too.

But I'm color blind

Also as much as I want to follow the polls. It's a matter of just how many will actually vote. How many are suppressed and how many forgot to register on time. There are also those that just give up as well.