2016 USA Presidential election thread II: And. Here. We. Go!

[Gredival]

I believe holding our crappy raft together is better than setting off sticks of dynamite while we're on board.

[myreality]

The first women president was elected for the sole reason that she was not Donald Trump. Can't wait for that documentary.

[archibaldcrane]

Im not are you?

So you're sick of Obama hopey changey failed rhetoric, and think Hilldog won't be able to do anything about climate change, and you acknowledge what Obama has been able to do about climate change.

You're going to have to fill in the blanks here because this isn't adding up.

[Dotsudoku]

how are you guys not embarrassed to be responding to well thought out posts about how objectively wrong you are over and over with what essentially amounts to "lol, nahhh"

[Gredival]

how are you guys not embarrassed to be responding to well thought out posts about how objectively wrong you are over and over with what essentially amounts to "lol, nahhh"

A Bernie sign on your yard is +50% resistance. A bumper sticker is another +40% that (stacks additively)

[Day]

how are you guys not embarrassed to be responding to well thought out posts about how objectively wrong you are over and over with what essentially amounts to "lol, nahhh"

because I'm getting old, tired, and have been around the block a few times already. you can write me a book on the things you think Hillary will get done and it will mean fuck all.

the only things getting accomplished in this country are the things directly benefiting the politicians making/enacting the laws and regulations.

[Day]

So you're sick of Obama hopey changey failed rhetoric, and think Hilldog won't be able to do anything about climate change, and you acknowledge what Obama has been able to do about climate change.

You're going to have to fill in the blanks here because this isn't adding up.

Maybe I dont think waiting 7.5 years and attending one summit, agreeing to something likely unenforceable and is not even enacted yet is any kind of win. perhaps a step in the right direction, I will be dead before it has any impact at this rate.

[6souls]

Marco "Taco Track" Gutierrez is a Real Estate scammer

Abuses leveled at immigrants can be particularly vicious. As part of a foreclosure rescue scam, Marco Gutierrez bullied and intimidated HERA’s monolingual Spanish-Speaking homeowner client, charging over $16,000 for a loan modification. He took the homeowner’s car as partial payment but never changed registration, racking up unpaid tickets under the homeowner’s name. When HERA helped the homeowner complain to authorities, the scammer filed a meritless lawsuit against the homeowner (and against a HERA staffer). In the course of defending the case, HERA discovered that Gutierrez was a serial litigant who had filed dozens of actions against his “clients”. Gutierrez was using the court system to bully vulnerable residents across several counties into paying amounts they did not owe him and to retaliate against those who complained about his practices. After defeating Gutierrez’s claims HERA brought a successful vexatious litigant motion against Gutierrez. As a result, both HERA’s client and countless other unrepresented homeowners who might have fallen prey to Gutierrez’s tactics are now protected.

http://www.heraca.org/documents/annu...rt_2013-14.pdf
http://www.dre.ca.gov/files/pdf/loanmods/H11051SF.pdf
chrome-extension://oemmndcbldboiebfnladdacbdfmadadm/http://www.dre.ca.gov/files/pdf/loanmods/H11052SF.pdf

And has filed for Bankruptcy 14 times

During the time I was working with [Debtors] they explained to me how they were using the bankruptcy court to prevent foreclosure on their home and to prevent other collection efforts, since they had no money. Mrs. Gutierrez explained to us that the way they were preventing a foreclosure was by filing for bankruptcy and then not following up on a legal requirement and the case would be dismissed. She explained to us that sometimes there was a three month period between the filing and the dismissal and that interfered with the foreclosure.

http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastor...%2013-1469.pdf

[Andalusian girls]

Maybe I dont think waiting 7.5 years and attending one summit, agreeing to something likely unenforceable and is not even enacted yet is any kind of win. perhaps a step in the right direction, I will be dead before it has any impact at this rate.

i'm like hey what's up hello



http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=26152

Adjusted for inflation, the economy in 2015 was 15% larger than it was in 2005, but the U.S. energy intensities and carbon intensities have both declined. On a per-dollar of gross domestic product (GDP) basis, in 2015, the United States used 15% less energy per unit of GDP and produced 23% fewer energy-related CO2 emissions per unit of GDP, compared with the energy and emissions per dollar of GDP in 2005.

[archibaldcrane]

Maybe I dont think waiting 7.5 years and attending one summit, agreeing to something likely unenforceable and is not even enacted yet is any kind of win. perhaps a step in the right direction, I will be dead before it has any impact at this rate.

Well, forget about internationally then. Just here in the US under Obama, coal has fallen from 45% of the grid electricity to 28% this year. Electric cars are here now and growing. Fuel economy standards are skyrocketing. So are solar power installations.

I guess I don't know what success looks like to you, but this definitely isn't failure.

[Gredival]

because I'm getting old, tired, and have been around the block a few times already. you can write me a book on the things you think Hillary will get done and it will mean fuck all.

the only things getting accomplished in this country are the things directly benefiting the politicians making/enacting the laws and regulations.

So are you willing to defend the argument that we are no better off with Obama than we would have been under Romney or McCain?

I don't care if the + is only .0001, it's still better than -10000.

And BTW it's only well off people (and I mean we're talking about people with free time to chat about politics on a video game message board) who can afford to reject that .0001 because it's not the +1000 the socialist was offering. For other people, that .0001 is the difference between health care and dying broke.

[Day]

i'm like hey what's up hello



http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=26152

i honestly dont know enough about it all to argue endlessly about this but that article says "The largest annual decline in energy-related CO2 emissions in the past decade occurred in 2008–09 during the recession." Not sure how you credit obama for that. 2009-current doesn't look like major decline to me, i will concede there is a decline.

and i voted for obama, i think he's been ok overall, no i think we would not be better off with romney, mccain probably would have been a decent president.

[Ksandra]

So are you willing to defend the argument that we are no better off with Obama than we would have been under Romney or McCain?

To add to this:

Are you going to defend the argument that somehow there will be no difference between Hillary and Trump, but magically if Bernie had won things would be different? Even in a Bernie presidency, he'd still be dealing with all the other politicians who are just in it to fill their pockets.


Do you, Day, honestly believe that Obama could have done more and simply chose not to because he's rich vs. he didn't because congress wouldn't back him? Do you have anything to support that?

[Xantavia]

Are you going to defend the argument that somehow there will be no difference between Hillary and Trump, but magically if Bernie had won things would be different? Even in a Bernie presidency, he'd still be dealing with all the other politicians who are just in it to fill their pockets.

I seem to recall that the argument to not vote for Sanders is that he would not be able to make any changes as president since things take time. But now people are saying Clinton will somehow be able to do all of that and more.

[archibaldcrane]

The idea that Bernie "close all the nuclear plants" Sanders would be better for global warming than Hillary is absurd.

[Day]

I'm not voting for trump, I'm not arguing he is the better choice. I am just saying I dont care for either choice personally.

I do not believe Obama didn't get things done because he is rich, I agree congress and the corrupted system as a whole is exactly the issue. That is why I don't believe any 1 person is going to be the solution to things like climate change, sexual harassment.

I dont see anything in Hillarys past that tells me any of the corruption and "gettin' money out of politics" will be cleaned up in the slightest, maybe it's all that right wing media I spend my time watching but she has been surrounded by nothing but tales of corruption, pandering, and the like.

[Day]

At least Bernie acknowledged the issue and has a history of speaking about it.

I don't agree with him on nuclear power but that's not the only thing on my list of things I care about.

[kisada]

i thought this was a good article that illuminated on how an empire was built to simply to take down the clintons

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...9a6_story.html

[myreality]

i thought this was a good article that illuminated on how an empire was built to simply to take down the clintons

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...9a6_story.html

That was a good read, thank you.

[kisada]

sure.

i find it a little bit tricky navigating and discussing the topic with people who don't know enough about it. if you go full bore with the reality, that there are institutions built to push out a false narrative, you risk coming off sounding as much of a conspiracy theorist as the right-wing propaganda pushers themselves. at the same time it's difficult to explain it any other way.

certainly the clintons have done their share in opening up their own vulnerabilities, and people on their side will always be wondering how much easier it would have been if they could stop shooting themselves in their proverbial feet. it makes the already difficult job of clearing away misconceptions even tougher and it's extremely challenging dealing with people who bite on the first thing they see coming straight from the right wing media.