2016 USA Presidential election thread II: And. Here. We. Go!

[archibaldcrane]

At least Bernie acknowledged the issue and has a history of speaking about it.

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/climate/

[Gredival]

I seem to recall that the argument to not vote for Sanders is that he would not be able to make any changes as president since things take time. But now people are saying Clinton will somehow be able to do all of that and more.

I for one didn't say Hillary was going to be able to give everyone a magical unicorn like Bernie promised.

But the difference between the most moderate Democrat in the White House (which HRC is not) vs the most moderate Republican (which Trump is not) is still a very significant and results in very meaningful change on a ton of issues even accounting for slow, incremental, institutional HRC style politics.

Again +.0001 beats -10000 any day.

[Ksandra]

I dont see anything in Hillarys past that tells me any of the corruption and "gettin' money out of politics" will be cleaned up in the slightest, maybe it's all that right wing media I spend my time watching but she has been surrounded by nothing but tales of corruption, pandering, and the like.

You are correct. I think you are stuck on the idea that people in this thread love Hillary, where I think there is only one that does (Archi). Most of us are being realists, though. I voted for Bernie, but it's over. The primary is done. Even at the time I question his ability to win, and still do. Now we have to look at our choices now. I don't see anyone in this thread saying "OH THANK GOD I AM SO HAPPY HILLARY IS DA BEZT POSSIBLE CHOICE EVER." But she is a real choice, and many of us feel is our only choice.

Don't confuse pragmatism with love.

[Gredival]

At the same time, I think she's a far better candidate than most people give her credit for. Even among establishment Democrats, who I will never look past when it comes to voting regardless of my personal politics, she's not the top of my list but it's not like she's freaking Evan Bayh here. (And you should all kiss the ground that beautiful Chamber of Commerce lobbyist of a man walks upon because that Democrat but not-at-all-progressive style is going to be key to getting the Senate back to blue.)

It's just that it's become vogue, especially for younger Democrats, to hedge your support for Clinton with a "Well I don't like her but..." preface because for some reason this generation thinks that voting for the better of two options needs to be justified.

[archibaldcrane]

I'm the ultimate pragmatist - it's what makes the choice so blindingly clear.

I preferred Edwards or Obama to Hilldog in '08. There's no such alternatives this year.

[Egon]

Reading the past few pages makes me think that voter turn out is going to be an all time low, which is sad. Not many on my side is excided about Trump, and it appears not many on y'alls side is excited about Hillary. I was a Ben Carson fan from the start, so I will be voting for Trump because he is paying Ben to tell me to do so.

I have a hard time believing Trump is as bad as everyone says he is anyway. He has been in the spot light for decades and when he decides to run as a Republican, he is automatically a racist. If he really was as bad as the media says he is, then this would be old news. The Clintons on the other hand, have always been shady in my book.

[Dantrag]

I'm the ultimate pragmatist - it's what makes the choice so blindingly clear.

I preferred Edwards or Obama to Hilldog in '08. There's no such alternatives this year.

I believe that's why most the Bernie camp feels like the Dems just tossed the nom to Clinton. Is there really only 3 people interested in being pres on the left? There has to be some other democrats that could have been better than Hillary.

[Byrthnoth]

I genuinely like Hillary.

If we had a fifty year old person with her qualifications and temperament who would likely have a firmer grasp on things like digital security and would be actuarially more likely to survive two terms, I would vote for them over her 5sure.

Everything I dislike about Hillary is a product of her age but, as in every decision ever made, I choose her because she is the closest to my ideal even if she is not perfectly my ideal.

[kisada]

i agree with gredival in that she's a much better candidate than given credit for. she's super qualified, a self-described policy wonk, and she seems to give an actual genuine shit about people, a quality of hers since she was young.

obviously she's flawed, and obviously there are many people who would rather have their ideal candidate running as opposed to her. but i don't think you have to try too hard to see she would be a good president.

[Melena]

Reading the past few pages makes me think that voter turn out is going to be an all time low, which is sad. Not many on my side is excided about Trump, and it appears not many on y'alls side is excited about Hillary. I was a Ben Carson fan from the start, so I will be voting for Trump because he is paying Ben to tell me to do so.

I have a hard time believing Trump is as bad as everyone says he is anyway. He has been in the spot light for decades and when he decides to run as a Republican, he is automatically a racist. If he really was as bad as the media says he is, then this would be old news. The Clintons on the other hand, have always been shady in my book.

Sometimes I don't even know you are trolling. People started calling him racist when he actually started saying racist shit, not when he said he was running

[archibaldcrane]

Sometimes I don't even know you are trolling. People started calling him racist when he actually started saying racist shit, not when he said he was running

Didn't those two things happen simultaneously?

[archibaldcrane]

Check that, the mexicans = rapists speech was 9 days after he announced his candidacy.

[GoggleHead]

Sometimes I don't even know you are trolling. People started calling him racist when he actually started saying racist shit, not when he said he was running

I'm still waiting to hear what he's said that's genuinely racist. When pressed for examples most people seem to default to his whole "build a wall and throw out the illegal aliens" stance, which is fairly unconvincing. Given how the media treats him I figure if there were things he said that were genuinely racist that we would be listening to the sound bite on loop for weeks on all the news networks.

[kisada]

that is literally what happened

[Minions]

I'm still waiting to hear what he's said that's genuinely racist. When pressed for examples most people seem to default to his whole "build a wall and throw out the illegal aliens" stance, which is fairly unconvincing. Given how the media treats him I figure if there were things he said that were genuinely racist that we would be listening to the sound bite on loop for weeks on all the news networks.

I feel like you have not been looking at the media at all if you have not heard all the shit he has said. The fact is he says even more insane shit constantly so there is a constant cycle of clips and no one clip lasts very long.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b03260bf777e83

Titles, click on the link to read about all of them:

He attacked Muslim Gold Star parents (for being Muslims)

He claimed a judge was biased because “he’s a Mexican”

The Justice Department sued his company ― twice ― for not renting to black people

In fact, discrimination against black people has been a pattern in his career

He refused to condemn the white supremacists who are campaigning for him

He questions whether President Obama was born in the United States

He treats racial groups as monoliths

He trashed Native Americans, too

He encouraged the mob justice that resulted in the wrongful imprisonment of the Central Park Five

He condoned the beating of a Black Lives Matter protester

He called supporters who beat up a homeless Latino man “passionate”

He stereotyped Jews and shared an anti-Semitic meme created by white supremacists

He treats African-American supporters as tokens to dispel the idea he is racist

etc etc

Also:
http://www.politico.eu/article/15-mo...ration-racism/

5. ‘Laziness is a trait in blacks’

“I have black guys counting my money. … I hate it,” Trump told John R. O’Donnell, the former president of Trump Plaza Hotel & Casino, according O’Donnell’s account in his 1991 book “Trumped!” “The only guys I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes all day.”

Trump, according to O’Donnell, went on to say, “‘Laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that.”

In an interview with Playboy in 1999, Trump remarked that “[t]he stuff O’Donnell wrote about me is probably true. The guy’s a f—-g loser. A f—-g loser. I brought the guy in to work for me; it turns out he didn’t know that much about what he was doing. I think I met the guy two or three times total. And this guy goes off and writes a book about me, like he knows me!”
6. ‘a well-educated black’

In an interview with NBC News in September 1989, Trump remarked, “A well-educated black has a tremendous advantage over a well-educated white in terms of the job market.”

He continued: “If I were starting off today, I would love to be a well-educated black, because I believe they do have an actual advantage.”
7. ‘They’re rapists … some, I assume, are good people’

Trump kicked off his presidential campaign on June 16 from the Trump Tower in Manhattan, and immediately touched off a furor with his comments about immigration.

“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people,” Trump said at his campaign announcement. “But I speak to border guards and they tell us what we’re getting. And it only makes common sense. It only makes common sense. They’re sending us not the right people. It’s coming from more than Mexico. It’s coming from all over South and Latin America, and it’s coming probably— probably— from the Middle East. But we don’t know. Because we have no protection and we have no competence, we don’t know what’s happening. And it’s got to stop and it’s got to stop fast.”

and
https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughTrump..._why_trump_is/

Took less than two minutes to find all of this. If you think its not out there it is, and you really don't even have to look for it.

[Xantavia]

I feel like you have not been looking at the media at all if you have not heard all the shit he has said. The fact is he says even more insane shit constantly so there is a constant cycle of clips and no one clip lasts very long.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b03260bf777e83

Titles, click on the link to read about all of them:

stuff

etc etc

Also:
http://www.politico.eu/article/15-mo...ration-racism/



and
https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughTrump..._why_trump_is/

Took less than two minutes to find all of this. If you think its not out there it is, and you really don't even have to look for it.

No, no, no. That is all lies the media is telling about him. They are taking quotes out of context. And when the whole quote is played, in context, he didn't really mean it. Trump was just being sarcastic and making a joke, and the evil liberal media is rigging the election.

I think that is the excuse a true Trump supporter takes, not the guy who is voting for him because "not Clinton".

[Gryffes]

[Zeb]

I wonder how high Papa Joe's numbers would be if he had put his name in for candicacy.

[Gredival]

I believe that's why most the Bernie camp feels like the Dems just tossed the nom to Clinton. Is there really only 3 people interested in being pres on the left? There has to be some other democrats that could have been better than Hillary.

There's a number of factors in play here.

1. The Democrats are getting massacred on the state level due to gerrymandering and the left's typical lack of political will during anything besides a Presidential year. A lack of qualified candidates in state offices in turn creates a weak bench for Senate/Governor positions that are the best lead-ins to Presidential runs.

2. Many Dems on her left know that the country isn't ready for a true progressive yet (Warren) and consider a failed Presidential run a failure more than free exposure.

3. Many Dems on her right know that you can't challenge an favorite from the right when there's a simultaneous challenge from the left (see Jim Webb). The one guy that could have pulled it off, Biden, declined to run for personal reasons.

[GoggleHead]

Took less than two minutes to find all of this. If you think its not out there it is, and you really don't even have to look for it.

It's kind of hard to believe all the claims of racism when people cite things like that stupid clip art tweet as evidence of racism. Roughly half the things on that list ring false right off the bat. Some of the older stuff from the 90s sounds like it might have legs to it, but get the fuck out of here telling me shit like failing to disavow every nutjob who happens to support you constitutes racism.

I swear to god people want so badly to have a candidate they can feel morally righteous about hating that they're jumping at shadows. There's plenty of real shortcomings to nail Donald Trump to the wall with like his lack of concrete policy on just about everything, his continual internal team upheaval or his economic sabre rattling with China and the likely detrimental effects that could have in years to come.