2016 USA Presidential election thread II: And. Here. We. Go!

[Tyrath]

I love it.

"Show me evidence."

*evidence is shown*

"Idk man that shit doesn't ring true."

[Guyverarmor]

Googlehead is one of those guys who thinks Trump is playing 38D Chinese Checkers.

[Zealot]

38D? Melania, maybe.

[Ksandra]

It's kind of hard to believe all the claims of racism when people cite things like that stupid clip art tweet as evidence of racism. Roughly half the things on that list ring false right off the bat. Some of the older stuff from the 90s sounds like it might have legs to it, but get the fuck out of here telling me shit like failing to disavow every nutjob who happens to support you constitutes racism.

I swear to god people want so badly to have a candidate they can feel morally righteous about hating that they're jumping at shadows. There's plenty of real shortcomings to nail Donald Trump to the wall with like his lack of concrete policy on just about everything, his continual internal team upheaval or his economic sabre rattling with China and the likely detrimental effects that could have in years to come.

Here's the problem with Trump supporters. They seem to think the only way one can be racist is if you explicitly say, "Whites are superior to X."

Except that's not the only way. Not even close. When you generalize and say something like this:

"When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

But I speak to border guards and they tell us what we’re getting. And it only makes common sense. It only makes common sense. They’re sending us not the right people."

Then you are saying every Mexican in America has problems with drugs, rape, and crime. That is racist, and you are completely ignorant if you think otherwise.

[kisada]

Best part is he probably thinks he's being the objective one who cares only for the truth as he dismisses said evidence

How noble and righteous

[Blubbartron]

Except that the context of those statements by Trump were on illegal immigration, which is not talking about ALL Mexicans. Claiming he's racist because of those statements is to willfully ignore context and intentionally misconstrue what was said.

[Cail]

Cmon guys. Trump loves Hispanics. He even tweeted it and put it on facebook, remember?!

Spoiler: show

[kisada]

I'd say the ignorance is in pretending the racism doesn't exist because of how you frame it

[Gredival]

It's kind of hard to believe all the claims of racism when people cite things like that stupid clip art tweet as evidence of racism. Roughly half the things on that list ring false right off the bat. Some of the older stuff from the 90s sounds like it might have legs to it, but get the fuck out of here telling me shit like failing to disavow every nutjob who happens to support you constitutes racism.

I swear to god people want so badly to have a candidate they can feel morally righteous about hating that they're jumping at shadows. There's plenty of real shortcomings to nail Donald Trump to the wall with like his lack of concrete policy on just about everything, his continual internal team upheaval or his economic sabre rattling with China and the likely detrimental effects that could have in years to come.

The housing lawsuit is really your best indicator that he is at the very least apathetic about racial issues. When he was confronted with something patently unjust (his father's policy of not renting to blacks) and in his sole power to change, he just didn't care. Then when he had to start renting to blacks in order to fill to capacity, he went to the special step of segregating buildings that would house black tenants.

Trump can say that a consent decree is not a verdict against him proven in a court all he wants, but Donald Sterling can say the same thing.

Also yes, you can't control who endorses you. But it's no secret that angry whites that are pissed off about not being the dominant power group were a driving force of his primary support. Which is precisely why he doesn't disavow himself of people that he clearly should, like David Duke. And when you court voters like that, how can you be trusted to have any commitment at all to civil rights?

[archibaldcrane]

Except that the context of those statements by Trump were on illegal immigration, which is not talking about ALL Mexicans. Claiming he's racist because of those statements is to willfully ignore context and intentionally misconstrue what was said.

I forgot that Judge Curiel was an illegal immigrant.

Wait he's not an immigrant at all.

[Mertron]

we won't know for sure until he releases his birth certificate

[Ksandra]

Except that the context of those statements by Trump were on illegal immigration, which is not talking about ALL Mexicans. Claiming he's racist because of those statements is to willfully ignore context and intentionally misconstrue what was said.

So what? Are you implying that if you have an illegal status it's ok to generalize and you are not racist because of it?


Here's a shocker: Racism doesn't have to apply when you are talking about literally every single person of that race. Added a frame of "illegal" doesn't negate racist generalizations to those people.

[kisada]

what always gets me about apologists for trump and racists in general is that they never actually think it's racism. they know the word is bad and being one is socially abhorrent, but they think as long as you aren't shouting "nigger" from the roof tops then they aren't doing or saying anything wrong

[Gredival]

Ya'll forgot Blubb rules people. It's only racist if it's against whites and sexist if it's against men. SJW prejudice against white men is the only discrimination that actually exists, everything else is a screen used by those SJWs to mask their own agenda of hate.

[thetruepandagod]

The housing lawsuit is really your best indicator that he is at the very least apathetic about racial issues. When he was confronted with something patently unjust (his father's policy of not renting to blacks) and in his sole power to change, he just didn't care. Then when he had to start renting to blacks in order to fill to capacity, he went to the special step of segregating buildings that would house black tenants.

Trump can say that a consent decree is not a verdict against him proven in a court all he wants, but Donald Sterling can say the same thing.

Also yes, you can't control who endorses you. But it's no secret that angry whites that are pissed off about not being the dominant power group were a driving force of his primary support. Which is precisely why he doesn't disavow himself of people that he clearly should, like David Duke. And when you court voters like that, how can you be trusted to have any commitment at all to civil rights?

Out of everything Trump has done(not denounced) I find this this the most inconsequential. Hillary has in essence done the same exact thing, arguably even worse, albeit a decade ago, but since we are bringing up proofs from Trump's past from near 30 year ago to showcase his racial thoughts then why not bitch and moan about Hillary kissing Robert Byrd. Both candidate are shit, Bernie was shit too, Jill stein is a straight up nutter, and gary johnson is trash too.

inb4 conspiracy, here's this forums favorite website clearing it.
http://www.snopes.com/clinton-byrd-photo-klan/

[Andalusian girls]

Byrd repeatedly said joining the KKK was the worst mistake of his life, his voting record was given a 100% rating by the NAACP who called him a champion of civil liberties, was one of the main movers and shakers for the establishment of the MLK Memorial in Washington, and a onetime junior senator from Illinois often tells a story of how the senior senator from West Virginia was the first of his colleagues to privately take him aside and show him both kindness and respect, a kindness that would be repaid a decade later when Obama gave a eulogy at Byrd's funeral. people change, Byrd changed more than most, and it is sickening his lifelong odyssey of redemption and rising above the fetid culture of segregation from which he came is being entirely neglected by political operatives seeking to undermine Hillary Clinton.

there is no equivalency with Trump's white supremacist supporters.

[Gredival]

It's also worth remembering that there have been three different iterations of the Klan in American history (the current one being the 3rd). The one that Byrd joined was the second. While still not a great bunch, that incarnation of the Klan was more about populism with a twinge of antisemitism than white supremacy, so membership was more socially acceptable.

Being mentored by a lion of the Senate that was a former Klansman sixty years ago, regretted his membership, and was honored by the NAACP upon his passing is not the same thing as enjoying widespread support among thousands of active Klansmen who don't regret their membership at all and tacitly availing oneself of endorsements by prominent active white supremacists.

You're free to dislike Hillary (although as I've pointed out, she's a much better candidate than most people give her credit for) but even if you dislike her there's no comparison between her and Trump. A cold and ebola are not the same thing.

[GoggleHead]

I love it.

"Show me evidence."

*evidence is shown*

"Idk man that shit doesn't ring true."

More like "this bit here seems legit, but why are you showing me this thing over here which has fuck all to do with what you're trying to demonstrate" but sure, think what you want cupcake.

[Andalusian girls]

It's also worth remembering that there have been three different iterations of the Klan in American history (the current one being the 3rd). The one that Byrd joined was the second. While still not a great bunch, that incarnation of the Klan was more about populism with a twinge of antisemitism than white supremacy, so membership was more socially acceptable.

this is nonsense. the Second Klan did introduce healthy doses of antisemitism and anticommunism and anti-Catholicism and anti-immigrationionism, a generalized notion of keeping America pure, but they were as focused on white supremacy and the subjugation of blacks as ever, particularly in their southern chapters where segregation was increasingly coming under outside scrutiny. their literature and speechifying continued to expound upon the glory of the great white race and the inferiority of the negro, of the need to defend white womanhood from the rapacious African phallus, and their vigilante justice of terror bombings and lynchings and the like continued to almost exclusively target black men.

a quote from Byrd during his time in the imagined softer Klan

I shall never fight in the armed forces with a negro by my side ... Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds.

he was a prodigiously racist leader of a prodigiously racist organization and it does no good to attempt to soft-sell his sins. his journey is great and his redemption profound only because he began in the blackest of hells and struggled toward the light with great labor.

[Niiro]

the blackest of hells