2016 USA Presidential election thread II: And. Here. We. Go!

[Tarage]

My parents voted for Trump and I'll explain why. I'm not saying anything they think is rational, they watch Fox News all the time, but this is what a trump voter looks like in a blue state.

They are getting older, my dad is over 65, my mom is almost there herself. They are both self employed and both still working. They have watched their friends retire and live nice lives, and they are still working. My mother does medical billing and gets fucked over by doctors. My father is breaking his body being a one man general-contractor company working long hours and doing quality but hard work, long beyond 60 hours. He's always in pain. They have watched their money get taxed away to the point where they don't know when they will be able to retire. They don't have company 401ks, they don't have company health insurance. They have to pay for everything. These are not people who lavishly piss away money either. They agonize over every purchase. My mother hasn't been to the dentist in years because it costs too much. They are suffering, depressed, and continue to watch folks on the left tell them that they aren't paying enough. They absolutely can't stand the Clintons. They don't much like the average Republican either, but they continue to vote down party lines because the one time they voted third party, Clinton happened. They cling to a hope that Trump will surround himself with smart people even if he himself doesn't know much. That is the narrative they believe.

It's hard watching them waste away. There's a part of me that is okay with Trump winning simply because it makes them happy, that they can believe the fantasy a little longer before it all comes crashing down. I was disillusioned with the election long ago, but also aware that as a white male with a good job living in a blue state... it probably wasn't going to affect me much. It's a horrible thing to say, but it's the truth. Anyway, sorry for rambling, but I thought maybe I could offer a small view into the other side's thinking.

[Xno Kappa]

TriCare all day erry day. As long as Trump doesn't fuck with that or the GS locality pay scale I'm gucci.

[Aerin]

No rambling there, I think that's great (info). It's probably info the DNC could use to understand wtf happened. To me, for this particular case, the Dems need to get out the message better here. There's a big discussion the nation needs to have on healthcare, because if we do nothing with Obamacare, premiums will go up. If all we do is repeal it, premiums may go down initially, but they will still continue to go up and you won't be covered for anywhere near as much (if you're able to get insurance at all).

[Tarage]

No rambling there, I think that's great (info). It's probably info the DNC could use to understand wtf happened. To me, for this particular case, the Dems need to get out the message better here. There's a big discussion the nation needs to have on healthcare, because if we do nothing with Obamacare, premiums will go up. If all we do is repeal it, premiums may go down initially, but they will still continue to go up and you won't be covered for anywhere near as much (if you're able to get insurance at all).

The thing is, before they didn't have health insurance, or had a worse flavor, so when Obamacare came into being they actually had to pay a lot more, so that did not endear them to that situation.

[dasva]

People like that aren't really that uncommon. Might just be that I live in a part of Cali where red and blue meet but most the people who I'm pretty sure would go Trump are similar in some way not for love of him or party but more because of the feel that the left actively doesn't care about anyone not fully behind them and in at least 1 way that is important to them that makes a difference. Of course they haven't come to the realization that neither does Trump....

[Ksandra]

One of the biggest failings of a lot of Democratic plans is wanting to tax more for programs without first finding ways to get people more money in order to be able to pay them. They found it was easier to increase taxes than to increase wages, but that's the wrong order. Honestly.



On the flip side though, Trump afaik has never said he would reduce taxes on the poor and middle class. Just the rich to "bring more business." But we all know where that leads. Meaning, sadly, people will still not have money, and programs like schools will continue to get defunded.

It's sad all around.

[dasva]

The thing is, before they didn't have health insurance, or had a worse flavor, so when Obamacare came into being they actually had to pay a lot more, so that did not endear them to that situation.

And some didn't really want it or to the amount it was. Some people really just see/want insurance as a in case of emergency and are looking at it like well shit I haven't been using any or anymore than before... Probably could get more people on board lower options were more accessible. Hell I still haven't figured out how to use mine and set stuff up lol

[Meian]

So this is all your fault.

I don't know if I had passed yet though.

[Aerin]

And some didn't really want it or to the amount it was. Some people really just see/want insurance as a in case of emergency and are looking at it like well shit I haven't been using any or anymore than before... Probably could get more people on board lower options were more accessible. Hell I still haven't figured out how to use mine and set stuff up lol

The mandate was necessary to cover removing preexisting conditions. Premiums went up more as well because there's a lot of things the healthcare law made illegal, like daily/yearly maximums that the insurance would pay out. A typical daily maximum was $2000 which wouldn't even cover a hospital room for that day, let alone the doctors you see or the drugs you need. Premiums were still skyrocketing before the ACA came into being as well.

[Fiye]

Tell them that we’re going to give our new President the same respect that we would give any other President.

I'm seeing this from my conservative friends who've spent the last few years I've known them bashing Obama.

[dasva]

The mandate was necessary to cover removing preexisting conditions.

And that's kind of the heart of it. People hear that idea and it sounds great lets help those. But then when you say hey in order to pay for that we going to make everyone pay sphincters tighten

[Aerin]

One way to cut insurance costs is to go with a single payer system. Just sayin. But the people with the highest profit margins are Hospitals (not doctors), Pharmaceutical companies, and device makers. Can you imagine the outcry if you try to cut into their profits though? And their profits are in the hundreds of millions each year, even the non-profit hospitals that are tax exempt.

[dasva]

I'm seeing this from my conservative friends who've spent the last few years I've known them bashing Obama.

Saw similar when Obama took office. Either way though people need to realize there is a difference between respect due the position and the respect earned or in this case not earned by the person in the position. I feel this comes more easily to people in the military as you often have to respect your superiors rank even if he is the worst

[Marootsoobutsu]

Question for people who are more knowledgeable about this than me:

I am currently employed full-time and getting my health insurance through my employer. I am hoping to leave my job and become self-employed sometime next year. I'm concerned now, because I have a pretty rough medical condition that requires some pretty expensive meds (about 1k a month) and I was planning to get my insurance through the marketplace once I left my job. With the new republican congress/POTUS, how screwed am I? Like, really, what happens if the ACA gets repealed and insurance suddenly doesn't need to cover pre-existing conditions, again? Do I just never get to be self-employed unless I want to take out a small loan to pay for my meds? I was on my parents insurance before the ACA took effect, so I don't have any idea how this works.

If you maintain continuous coverage, you cannot be denied for a pre-existing condition. If you stop being covered, then you can be denied for your pre-existing conditions, or at least that's how it was ACA. My wife has run up close to $2M in medical costs, covered by insurance, pre-ACA, even though we've switched insurance several times in that span, because we maintained constant coverage.

Pre-existing exclusions *ONLY* applied to people who had been diagnosed with an illness, and had no insurance at all. *IF YOU ALREADY WERE INSURED* before being diagnosed, even if you change insurance, as long as you maintain continual coverage, you are fine, and couldn't be denied even pre-ACA. They'd have to repeal more than just the ACA for you to be screwed, as long as you maintain coverage.

One of the biggest failings of a lot of Democratic plans is wanting to tax more for programs without first finding ways to get people more money in order to be able to pay them. They found it was easier to increase taxes than to increase wages, but that's the wrong order. Honestly.



On the flip side though, Trump afaik has never said he would reduce taxes on the poor and middle class. Just the rich to "bring more business." But we all know where that leads. Meaning, sadly, people will still not have money, and programs like schools will continue to get defunded.

It's sad all around.

Family of four in Washington, and we have a negative income tax already at 50K+/year. We're pretty solidly middle class, and you just really can't lower our taxes any-- you'd actively have to pay us more. You just *can't* lower income taxes on the poor/middle class, and most other broad taxes aren't federal, they're local. If we want to get out of the deficit, we are going to *HAVE* to raise taxes on the middle class, at least, as well as increase taxes on the rich (probably not income tax, but capital gains and others of the like).

The one method I'd like to see for raising the wages of the poor isn't an increase in minimum wage, but a mandated "profit sharing" with caps on profit-percentage that can go into "reinvestment", and some degree of relative top pay:bottom/hours compensation package. Like, I don't have a problem with a CEO of, say, Walmart making thousands of times what their bottom rung employees make, because the reality is, even if all of Walmart's management made $1/year, it would bump pay by like .03 cents/hour to the rest of their employees... they make a ton on salary/compensation not because they are gouging their employees, but because they are taking a tiny amount from a toooooooooooooooooooooooooooooon of people. But, compelling the company to reward those lower rungs from the profits would actually make a noticeable difference in their wages (in some years, coming close to $.2/hour in Walmart's case), even if 80% of their profit was re-invested. I mean, it's not a TON, but it would work out to about $420/year, which would make a difference.

Also: ending lotteries + predatory lending (not just pay day loans but most credit cards ) would do a *ton* to help folks live in their means and actually manage to get ahead. 20% interest is murder, but when you look at like, Sears and JC Penny, their most profitable departments are their credit card and financing departments.

Teaching poorer/lower income folks how to better spend their money would do them a LOT more good than just giving them more money to continue spending poorly.

[Fiye]

I feel this comes more easily to people in the military as you often have to respect your superiors rank even if he is the worst

The chain of command I deal with (From my RC divisional LCPO to the RCA) hates Obama.

That chief wishes he was in Oregon while Ya'll Qaeda was happening. I know there's a difference in sample size and I've only been to one sea command (For 5+ years now) but that's how my experience has been.

[Fiye]

[NynJa]

Whole lot of muslim refugees gotta disagree with that statement.

Triggered cuz its true

[Marootsoobutsu]

One way to cut insurance costs is to go with a single payer system. Just sayin. But the people with the highest profit margins are Hospitals (not doctors), Pharmaceutical companies, and device makers. Can you imagine the outcry if you try to cut into their profits though? And their profits are in the hundreds of millions each year, even the non-profit hospitals that are tax exempt.

Most hospitals lose money, dude (and many of the profitable hospitals are part of networks that support unprofitable hospitals in their group). Pharma companies make money, as do device makers, though pharma companies also have, by far, the most risk. Device makers are problematic mostly because of trademark/copyright law that needs revisited and revised (but not flushed).

[myreality]

Pre-existing exclusions *ONLY* applied to people who had been diagnosed with an illness, and had no insurance at all. *IF YOU ALREADY WERE INSURED* before being diagnosed, even if you change insurance, as long as you maintain continual coverage, you are fine, and couldn't be denied even pre-ACA. They'd have to repeal more than just the ACA for you to be screwed, as long as you maintain coverage.

Assuming your talking before ACA.
I remember when insurance companies would give out contracts that expire in 2-3 years then you have to sign up again. Everything that happened those few years became a preexisting condition.

Not like I was able to get insurance in the first place.

[Xno Kappa]

Biden really could've won this shit easily. He would've exposed Trump's faux bravado with such ease.

Sucks that personal issues prevented him to do as such.