2016 USA Presidential election thread II: And. Here. We. Go!

[Fiye]

*Shakes magic 8 ball*

Not likely.

[NynJa]

Frankly, I don't fault people protesting at the moment.

"Democracy failed us so were gonna throw a temper tantrum because shit didnt go our way".

They're literally protesting because the person they wanted to win didnt win, when thats the entire point of the voting process.

[Marootsoobutsu]

Honestly the first time I've heard most hospitals lose money. Any reading to link? What do you think would reduce cost?

WaPost articles from.. May? Had a series from it. Some Hospitals made serious bank, but most of the named hospitals objected strongly, and noted that many of them were supporting others.

I can also testify somewhat from family-- my step mother-in-law is hospital admin outside of Scranton, PA and they are constantly running a loss/near loss.

For-profit hospitals are the exception, though most of them aren't making strong profit; my memory says not-for-profit and teaching hospitals averaged like an $80 loss/patient, while for-profits managed something like $20/patient profit.


As for how to reduce the costs overall, other than fast-tracking device approval by the FDA, and fast-tracking generic approval (many drugs are approved in Europe as generics but not in the US), I'm not entirely sure. I'm not in favor of full-on neutering the FDA when it comes to new drugs/devices/etc... (though it does need *some* reform, but exactly *what* reform I'm not prepared to comment on), but for generics and off-brand, it needs to be much easier. The epi-pen example from much earlier in this thread is an example, but not all that extreme of one when it comes to med-tech. This largely falls into trademark/copyright reform, as well. I'm sure that Tyche or others more directly involved in the field could give more information; my knowledge is all 2nd/3rd hand, and specifics might be off or out-dated.

[Marootsoobutsu]

It may be.my short term political memory, but this start becoming a big thing after the 2010 tea party uprising. Chris Christie got flogged for welcoming Obama to his state after hurricane Sandy.

It became a thing somewhat in 2003~, and it *really* became a thing in 2006. The Republicans made it even MORE a thing in 2008, and were able to put that thing into practice in 2010.

[SamanosukeShiva]

I'm sorry, Hillary and ETI's weren't mentioned in the same emails so they are irrelevant.

did someone mentioned emails?

[Gryffes]

Decent graph for turnout.

[kuronosan]

My parents voted for Trump and I'll explain why. I'm not saying anything they think is rational, they watch Fox News all the time, but this is what a trump voter looks like in a blue state.

They are getting older, my dad is over 65, my mom is almost there herself. They are both self employed and both still working. They have watched their friends retire and live nice lives, and they are still working. My mother does medical billing and gets fucked over by doctors. My father is breaking his body being a one man general-contractor company working long hours and doing quality but hard work, long beyond 60 hours. He's always in pain. They have watched their money get taxed away to the point where they don't know when they will be able to retire. They don't have company 401ks, they don't have company health insurance. They have to pay for everything. These are not people who lavishly piss away money either. They agonize over every purchase. My mother hasn't been to the dentist in years because it costs too much. They are suffering, depressed, and continue to watch folks on the left tell them that they aren't paying enough. They absolutely can't stand the Clintons. They don't much like the average Republican either, but they continue to vote down party lines because the one time they voted third party, Clinton happened. They cling to a hope that Trump will surround himself with smart people even if he himself doesn't know much. That is the narrative they believe.

It's hard watching them waste away. There's a part of me that is okay with Trump winning simply because it makes them happy, that they can believe the fantasy a little longer before it all comes crashing down. I was disillusioned with the election long ago, but also aware that as a white male with a good job living in a blue state... it probably wasn't going to affect me much. It's a horrible thing to say, but it's the truth. Anyway, sorry for rambling, but I thought maybe I could offer a small view into the other side's thinking.

I'm sorry to hear that, but that's incredibly selfish.

[SephYuyX]

"Democracy failed us so were gonna throw a temper tantrum because shit didnt go our way".

They're literally protesting because the person they wanted to win didnt win, when thats the entire point of the voting process.

That's basically the summary, moral philosophy, and attitude of the people ages 18~30
"I shouldn't actually have to work towards or do anything, I should just expect things to go my way"
Well, this is what happens when you sit on your ass and expect things. Hopefully this is a wake up call for people to realise that there are no safe spaces, hard work pays off, and to get off the govt teet.

Yeah right.

Red people may bitch and complain to a similar degree when Blue gets its way, but the amount of angst that is happening with these demonstrations is a whole new leveled of spoiled child.

[chazzyphizzle]

lol

[kuronosan]

That's basically the summary, moral philosophy, and attitude of the people ages 18~30
"I shouldn't actually have to work towards or do anything, I should just expect things to go my way"
Well, this is what happens when you sit on your ass and expect things. Hopefully this is a wake up call for people to realise that there are no safe spaces, hard work pays off, and to get off the govt teet.

Yeah right.

Red people may bitch and complain to a similar degree when Blue gets its way, but the amount of angst that is happening with these demonstrations is a whole new leveled of spoiled child.

Look, I don't agree with millennial tantrums either but if you think that's why they're protesting you're an idiot.

[Krandor]

[Greatguardian]

So, what were the gross effects of #whitelash on turnout? Net effect seems to be either negative or nil when compared to McCain and Romney turnout. If the GOP made gains, where were they? And who did they lose to negate them?

Record showings for early voting made it seem like this would be a high turnout election and a Trump win in those circumstances might reflect a huge outpouring of new voters. But looking at the final numbers, I'm just not seeing it. It looks more like the Dems just threw this one.

[Gryffes]

So, what were the gross effects of #whitelash on turnout? Net effect seems to be either negative or nil when compared to McCain and Romney turnout. If the GOP made gains, where were they? And who did they lose to negate them?

Record showings for early voting made it seem like this would be a high turnout election and a Trump win in those circumstances might reflect a huge outpouring of new voters. But looking at the final numbers, I'm just not seeing it. It looks more like the Dems just threw this one.

Pretty much.
Trump got less votes than Romney, but democrats didn't bother to show up and vote.

Just proves all the "hyper smart data modelling to target voters for amazing turnout" from the dems was a load of bullshit. Obama was charismatic and got young people and the blacks to actually go out and vote, as soon as he's gone it's back to normal.

[SephYuyX]

[BerenTebogo]

Member when SephYuyX didn't post?

Ya! I member!

I member too!

[SephYuyX]

You can start a protest if you'd like

[arus2001]

Look, I don't agree with millennial tantrums either but if you think that's why they're protesting you're an idiot.

Yeah, one of those cases of the anti-SJW/millennial crowd being just as obnoxious, if not more so, than the people they're trying to decry.

Regardless, the protests aren't just directed at Trump or even the voters that put him there, but to everyone else in power to stymie him from enacting all the batshit ideas he ran on and obviously drew appeal with. And that reminder needs to persist as long as possible with the R majority intact.

Alternatively, this can also be viewed as them working to get what they want. Just because it didn't happen now doesn't mean they should give up, should it? Is there some statute of limitations on caring about gays, women's rights, and all the related hot-button issues? Note that I'm not condoning destroying property or violence, but being all, "Shut up, you whiny bitches!" isn't suddenly going to enlighten them or allay their fears. And yes, this was a campaign of fearmongering. Behold the fruit.

[Day]

RE: Medical costs

I just learned this year about these fucks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharma...fit_management

They are the link between the pharmacy and the drug manufacturer. They get to kick rebates around, negotiate prices, etc... The epipen lady, as well as the pharmacist congressman I mentioned way back, had zero idea how much money these guys were getting on each drug because there is no transparency. In the specific case of the Epipen, they were paying a rebate TO the PBM.

According to an article published in August 2002 in the Wall Street Journal, that while PBMs were "steering doctors to cheaper drugs, especially low-cost generic copies of branded drugs from big pharmaceutical companies" from 1992 through 2002, they had "quietly moved into a new business: helping those same big pharmaceutical companies market their expensive brand-name drugs.

Express Scripts Holding Company is the largest pharmacy benefit management (PBM) organization in the United States,[20] with 2013 revenues of $104.62 billion.

In 2011 Caremark Rx was the nation's second-largest PBM. Caremark Rx was subject to a class action lawsuit in Tennessee. The suit alleged that Caremark kept discounts from drug manufacturers instead of sharing them with member benefit plans, secretly negotiated rebates for drugs and kept the money, and provided plan members with more expensive drugs when less expensive alternatives were available. CVS Caremark paid $20 million to three states over fraud allegations

Most folks I bet dont even know this is a thing, I for one thought the drug manuf. were selling direct to pharmacy.

[Olo401]

Yes, Senate doesn't have 60 votes. For what that's worth. Doesn't mean they won't be able to push certain things through especially if some Dems turn like they did on the original ACA but who the fuck knows at this point.

They can repeal the entire thing - all they have to do is use the same trick that the Dems used to get the ACA through budget reconciliation and the cloture vote will become a simple majority. And then it's back to Nixon-era healthcare-for-profit on steroids.

[Headspace]

They can repeal the entire thing - all they have to do is use the same trick that the Dems used to get the ACA through budget reconciliation and the cloture vote will become a simple majority. And then it's back to Nixon-era healthcare-for-profit on steroids.

A good point was made on Keeping it 1600 today. Basically they said that it was easy for house republicans to vote to repeal when they knew they had a veto coming. Now will as many vote to repeal when they have to answer to constituents who will lose their insurance, Medicaid, and Medicare as a result?

They probably will overall but I can see some representatives being more hesitant.


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