2016 USA Presidential election thread II: And. Here. We. Go!

[BaneTheBrawler]

This thread will remain open for the time being, however I would appreciate it if you folks would keep the focus on the election. Discussion of how it was won, any news about it, etc. President-Elect Trump will have his own thread for news and discussion about his cabinet choices and other such things.

[kisada]

My problem lies primarily with people acting like hypocrites, or with people who don't want the responsibility of electing Trump on their shoulders.

I ONLY EXERCISED MY RIGHT TO VOTE! I BELIEVED TRUMP WAS A BETTER CHOICE.

Okay. Then you take the responsibility that goes with it. That's how it works.

I remember people jumping down my throat for voting Obama (IRL) telling me I must want people to suffer and pay more for health insurance or that I must be okay with poor people stealing money from hard-working citizens because those poor darkies must not want to do any work and are all just lazy freeloaders.

The truth is, someone I know said it best: This was not an election about Right vs Left or Red vs Blue. What this came down to is people put policy over people. They don't care about the possible long-term effects on the environment, because they're either too ignorant to read between the lines or because they're too busy shouting mainstream media shit, so to them MOAR MONEY (even though Trickle Down is why they don't have money) and MOAR JOBS (even though Republicans are the reason they don't have any) was more important to them than TAKE CARE OF YOUR FELLOW CITIZENS and ALL AMERICANS SHOULD HAVE EQUAL RIGHTS.

That's a very valid, and very logical argument that is okay to believe in. I just don't agree with it. I think if you really hold equality and compassion dear to your heart, then that very easily dictates policy. So I can see why Trump supporters are scared to come forward, because they did what they believed was the right thing to do. That's fine. They shouldn't be punished for that.

I'm sorry to say they do not, however, have the right to absolve themselves of the responsibility that comes with voting in a man who so recklessly encouraged upstart behaviors and racism/bigotry. If they wanted the policies, and they get them, that's great. To me, it's selfish to make the already suffering suffer more because Alexia wants her extra White Mocha in the morning.

shoulda seen the vid krandor posted a couple pages back. popular basketball tv show host literally says he wrote in kasich instead of voting for hillary. tells people his conscience is clear. basically admits trump being elected was a bad thing. i mean, if you wanna talk about hypocrisy, holy fucking hell.

[Salodin]

Once again
We dont study american politics in canada

Based on whats going on in america with the millenials, it seems safe to say they dont teach about american politics in america either. They do know they actually have to vote for it to count, right?


And yes, i do know Obama cant stay in office, the popular vote thing was tongue in cheek.

You just aren't paying enough attention. I'm not blaming you, as you're Canadian, but please don't come in here with your Canadian perspective and not expect to get schooled from an American perspective of what's happening in America.

[kisada]

not sure if i'm taking the bait here but..

yes, they do teach politics in american schools. what nobody can force upon you is the importance of it.

my first election was gore vs bush and i voted gore, not necessarily because i liked one more than the other, but i liked clinton and how the country was.

my second election i didn't bother because while i knew in a general sense bush was shit, i wasn't over myself at 22 to understand the importance of caring. or the importance of educating myself about politics. it all seemed too hard. i opted not to vote.

next was obama. this time i actually cared about how the country was, but i still wasn't over myself to take the time to register and vote. i live in california and i passed it off as, well, it'll be blue anyway. i had a friend try to teach me the importance of voting for state laws but, again, not over myself. but i felt a distinct shame in not voting this time.

over obama's final term, i started caring. like, a lot. it just kind of happened because i saw all the things he did that were good for the people, and i saw what might happen if it went the other way. i saw the damage republicans could do to the country and trump's nomination polarized me even further. not sure i've ever cared about anything more in my entire life than this presidency.

my point is that we are indeed educated about the process. but there is no way to force someone to care. and the EC can cause people like me in states like california, to feel disenfranchised to begin with. you care only when you start caring.

[Galkaeater]

guess they shoulda listened to Old Bill huh

[Lokus]

my point is that we are indeed educated about the process. but there is no way to force someone to care. and the EC can cause people like me in states like california, to feel disenfranchised to begin with. you care only when you start caring.

Yet another knock on the EC. A friend of mine in Alabama felt his vote was completely pointless since Alabama will never turn blue. Then there is the whole EC pretty much enforcing a 2-party system for a candidate to be able to clinch 270.

[kisada]

guess they shoulda listened to Old Bill huh

reading that article made me so fucking mad. mook and his campaign crew should never work on a campaign ever again.

[Intrinsic]

My question is who got their feelings hurt bad enough by Headspace's copypasta to pay for a 30 day ban?

This was 100% me. Haven't used my 30 day ban for the last few donation cycles and Headspace + a few others have annoyed the hell out of me for the last few days so I thought, might as well use it this time. I rolled a dice and it came up Headspace. Nothing against him personally, just a roll of the dice.

[NynJa]

Unfortunately, some people think I'm trolling, as you are by calling my post "taking the bait".

You just said it yourself, you didnt feel like investing the time to vote when you were 22 or 26. How many of these people out there protesting the result didnt feel like taking the time to vote on Tuesday? Hopefully these people realized that posting "Fuck Trump, that racist piece of shit wont win #ImWithHer" on social media doesnt mean a thing, and they actually have to get out there and vote for who they want to win. Hell, they could have gone in line, then posted on social media while waiting in line. There were 15k votes for Harambe (this ones even worse because these idiots actually took the time to vote, just to vote for Harambe), how many of those 15k voters are out there protesting Trump's win right now? Probably not many, but the ones that did should have probably invested their time into something other than "for the lulz".

You just aren't paying enough attention. I'm not blaming you, as you're Canadian, but please don't come in here with your Canadian perspective and not expect to get schooled from an American perspective of what's happening in America.

What am I missing? That Trump is unfit to be President? Ya I got that. That Trump is a xenophobe racist bigot? Ya, I got that one. That Trump has zero experience in any political setting? Ya, got that one too. That Trump is very likely to fuck your country up in the next 4 years? Got that one too.

What I do know from looking at the numbers, the Republicans are good for about 60 mil votes the past 3 elections. The Dems went from 70m votes, to 66m votes, to 60m votes. "Racist white America" didnt come out in droves to vote for Trump. The Dems were unable to get their voters to come out, either because Trump made them think that no one would bother voting for him so there was no point in coming out, or because Clinton didnt do enough to earn their support. Didnt some people say she lost some states she was expected to win, and these lost states coincided with areas she had less rallys in?

So tell me what else I'm missing from whats happening in America?


Theres a lot of people here pointing out the things that Clinton failed to do to win (ie: 4 posts up, or the people saying that Clinton failed to hold rallys in areas she took for granted, etc etc). Its not that Trump won, its that Clinton lost.

[Ragnus]

shoulda seen the vid krandor posted a couple pages back. popular basketball tv show host literally says he wrote in kasich instead of voting for hillary. tells people his conscience is clear. basically admits trump being elected was a bad thing. i mean, if you wanna talk about hypocrisy, holy fucking hell.

I have a friend who voted for Johnson in RI and has the same attitude. It's kinda annoying. My wife voted for Stein, but admits that if MA was anywhere close to a battleground she would have voted Clinton.

[kisada]

again literally not sure what point you're trying to make right now.

you are the one who is questioning whether americans are educated on the political process of electing a president because you don't seem to understand why young people don't show up. i just explained that they are educated and the reasons why they wouldn't show.

[Wulfgang]

It's not incumbent on the people who voted against Trump to show him good will or the benefit of the doubt. He must earn that through his words and actions. He is not signaling that he is giong to govern in a unifying way for the majority of the electorate that voted for the other candidate, nor has he done anything to show that he is capable or fit to govern this country in a competent manner.

A good idea for reading for the next 4 years:

http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/11...-for-survival/

I think you are misinterpreting; not asking anyone to give him the benefit of the doubt, merely highlighting what I deem to be the best case, realistic scenario.

[NynJa]

again literally not sure what point you're trying to make right now.

you are the one who is questioning whether americans are educated on the political process of electing a president because you don't seem to understand why young people don't show up. i just explained that they are educated and the reasons why they wouldn't show.

Your reasons were ignorance ("i wasn't over myself at 22 to understand the importance of caring. or the importance of educating myself about politics. it all seemed too hard. i opted not to vote"), lazyness ("i still wasn't over myself to take the time to register and vote") and apathy ("i live in california and i passed it off as, well, it'll be blue anyway"). Please correct me if I'm wrong or mis-interpreted what you said.

[Galkaeater]

lol

[Salodin]

Nynja, the short of it is they're protesting to affirm what they've said all along, they do not support or endorse a president that incites hate.

You keep bringing up the demographics of the turn out like it's relevant to the protests, it's not. Those demographics are only good insofar that we know which blue states betrayed the team because the Trump promised to bring back the good ol days where they toiled in a factory until their joints were sore and they retired cause of the pain
(Et tu Wisconsin, et tu Michigan). Those demographics also tell us the majority of Americans did not Trump, but I don't see you mentioning that. In fact, all I see is a bunch of victim blaming lol.

[NynJa]

Those demographics also tell us the majority of Americans did not Trump, but I don't see you mentioning that.

"But but but the popular vote". First, yall knew the rules of the election, it sucks but thats what it is.

I'm pretty sure I mentioned it. Its right there, with the quote linked to it. I even said it sucks, because it does suck.

[Ksandra]

I'm pretty sure I mentioned it. Its right there, with the quote linked to it. I even said it sucks, because it does suck.

So they are supposed to sit there and just let the EC continue to exist even if they don't want it?

We're not allowed to voice our dissent on it?

That's not american at all.

[Lokus]

Dems didn't come out is the basic takeaway from this election. We can't blame it on any specific reason but it's more likely a variety of reasons that caused the low turnout. Voter suppression, apathy, smugness, protest voting, and underestimating the amount of shit Trump has said or done that people would overlook.

http://www.nydailynews.com/amp/news/...icle-1.2866395

Is there any kind of metric for people that wanted to vote but were unable to for reasons?

[Salodin]

Oh, so because we went into something knowing it's kinda fucked up, it's not ok to point it out and bitch about it? How about pointing out how the people who could change it, won't, because it has positively affected them in more often then not. Oh, but that's just democracy right?

I gave you a pass on American politics because you're Canadian, but that's no excuse for being an imbecile. If you can't understand the rage then are you even trying?

[kisada]

Your reasons were ignorance ("i wasn't over myself at 22 to understand the importance of caring. or the importance of educating myself about politics. it all seemed too hard. i opted not to vote"), lazyness ("i still wasn't over myself to take the time to register and vote") and apathy ("i live in california and i passed it off as, well, it'll be blue anyway"). Please correct me if I'm wrong or mis-interpreted what you said.

that's exactly it. are americans educated as they go through school? absolutely they are. basic civics lessons are a mandatory part of what you learn (or were at least when i grew up) but not throughout the entire system. there is no lack of teaching about how elections work. everyone knows how it goes down. but not everyone is taught with the same emphasis on its importance, nor can anyone be forced to care and that is the distinction i'm trying to make.

personally i'd love if the american education system had mandatory civics and critical thinking courses throughout all of middle school and high school cause i think it'd unfuck quite a bit of that but that is wishful thinking at its finest.