2016 USA Presidential election thread II: And. Here. We. Go!

[Zoner]

[FNH]

couldn't we just like... argue that the electoral college is impinging on equal rights? after all, not everyone is having equal representation due to the electoral college, so why is it allowed to stand? after all, the 14th amendment overturned the 3/5 black vote, so couldn't we make a similar argument for the electoral college causing peoples votes to not be equal?

But you'd have tons of states btfo because a large amount of the population lives in certain areas. The electoral college and popular vote haven't been vastly different often enough to change the system. Just because you lose doesn't mean you get to rewrite the rules. Though if those that lost went throughout the proper route of petitioning their congressional representatives and they voted to change it, I'd be ok with it.

[Psion]

who said it would be rewriting the rules? it would more like ruling the electoral college unconstitutional, which is essentially clarifying and sticking to the rules of the constitution. (though granted there would be rule rewriting technically.)

i dunno, it just seems that unequal representation is a violation of individual rights.

[Niiro]

It is an awful, garbage system but in no sense is it unconstitutional.

The federal government has equal authority over every citizen in every state.

The votes of those citizens should count equally when voting for that government.

[FNH]

Like I said the people who want to change it can petition their congressional representatives about changing it. Surely with the dems winning the popular vote they must cover enough districts to force a change, right?

[myreality]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...s-us/93633154/

For the third night in a row, anti-Donald Trump demonstrators took to the streets in several big cities and on college campuses across the United States, including an outburst of smashed windows and a dumpster fire in Portland that police countered with pepper spray and flash-bang devices.

About 4,000 protesters assembled downtown late Thursday chanting “we reject the president-elect!” the Associated Press reported. Some among the crowd vandalized 19 cars at a dealership in Northeast Portland, according to a sales manager, Oregonlive.com reports. Protesters then headed west, over the Broadway Bridge and into the Pearl District, where the windows of several businesses were smashed.

The protest was mostly peaceful until demonstrators met with an anarchist group, after which demonstrators vandalized buildings, kicked cars and knocked out power, KGW-TV reported.

On Twitter, Portland police said many protesters were "trying to get anarchist groups to stop destroying property" and that "anarchists" were refusing to do so. Demonstrators repeatedly chanted "peaceful protest."

Officers ordered protesters to disperse after the demonstration turned into what they called a riot, citing "extensive criminal and dangerous behavior." At least 26 people were arrested.

Police said the crowd, which included many people armed with bats, threw projectiles at officers, who responded by pushing back against the crowd, then making arrests and using flash-bang devices, pepper spray, rubber projectiles and types of smoke or tear gas to force people to disperse.

https://www.periscope.tv/w/1OyKAOdVY...trump-protests

Protests around the country broke out again. Donald is also trolling on Twitter.

[Niiro]

Like I said the people who want to change it can petition their congressional representatives about changing it. Surely with the dems winning the popular vote they must cover enough districts to force a change, right?

Not when smaller states and smaller districts are so grossly overrepresented in in both legislatures and the presidency.

You're asking those in power to potentially vote themselves out of power.

[myreality]

Texas

https://www.periscope.tv/w/1djxXEMld...trump-protests

[Krandor]

Among all the cities staging the various protests, Portland is the last one I would expect to break out into a riot.

[Marootsoobutsu]

maroot yes you are right, they aren't designed as just a construct to house, but both house and govern, something i should have added and not merely implied.

Pretty much on same page as what AG is saying and it's something i've been in belief of for years. It's some real legit bullshit that my power of representation is a fraction of what it should be simply because of where i live. I might spend the next hour digging up that stupid chart that shows what my equivalent voting power is compared to a white male because i think there is a chance (albeit a low one) that it breaks through to some of you guys. I'm not half a fucking american but apparently that is what my vote counts for.

btw, i can't say i am following your argument that a popular vote is bad beyond A. you just saying that it's bad, and B. you getting to the idea that my vote as a californian might negatively impact someone else's well-being in wyoming. So correct me if i'm wrong. Anyway, just the same as you have concern for someone else in another state, someone else's vote from a place that is just as juxtaposed to me can (and did) impact my well-being when people in MI, PA, OH, FL, etc. voted with more force than i did with the exact same button press. I was marginalized from the start. I started out with the disadvantage that you seem to think is of more concern to a random voter elsewhere than it does to me, who shouldn't have greater powers than i do in terms of citizenship. Yet here we are. And btw, if you are worried about how my vote affects someone else from another culture and another state, isn't that already the job of each state's government? Maybe i'm reading what you're saying all wrong but i think i'd understand you more clearly if there were no such things as governors and i had some cattle ranchers voting on my state's drought situation.

Beyond that, that voter disenfranchisement is such a turn off to so many people. I don't think it is any small mystery as to why so many people don't give a shit about politics nor why do, out of hundreds of millions of eligible people, less than half show up to vote. Whatever flaws i can think of or you might bring up (even if i agreed with them) are abjectly pale in comparison to the idea that my vote nationally, or AG's countering vote have been set in stone since day 1.

A large part of my argument is that Politics is meant to exist, largely, to rectify imbalances where they occur, not to be a place of absolutely equal balance. To this end, efforts such as the Civil Rights Amendment disproportionately favors certain groups-- and it should; there is a balance problem toward access to freedom of opportunity, and it needs solved. I will argue very passionately that the Democratic platform fails in achieving this, and that alternate methods are necessary, but the existence of it? No.

Large states have extremely strong influences in the country outside of politics. The conglomerate cultures of California, Texas, and New York shape a disproportionate amount of this country's behavior and tendencies, politically and apolitically, culturally and informationally. Extremely small states have a very distinctly disproportionate power in the Senate. The House is much closer (though needs revision to get closer still), to be the political branch that represents people instead of states. The Presidency is meant to be a mixture of both, representing the People of the United *STATES*.

Power exists as far more than just politics, and large centers of population wield power far beyond their legal jurisdictions, and far beyond their numbers. Having a method in play that by default limits that, and compels agreement with small-to-medium population centers is vital, especially in a nation as vast as ours.

What California does, the rest of the country has to live with, and Texas, and New York. Their markets are so *HUGE* that standards have to *at least* meet their standards for almost all goods, or businesses are just giving up too much opportunity. There's a reason that California and Texas dominate the entire country with educational materials-- if you can't market in at least one of them, you may as well find a new job. I don't get a vote in Texas policy, or in California policy, but it sure as hell impacts me here in my state.

The point is, there is *substantial* power outside of national-level politics, and a lot of it happens inside of states. A lot of it has nothing to do with state-wide political power, even, and it kind of sucks that voting power for some is a casualty of this, but you would cede far, far too much total power to massive population centers with a directly-elected President as well. The compromise of House + Senate proportions is perhaps not entirely fair (especially with the methodology of electoral distribution outside of Nebraska and Maine), but it is a vitally important method of protecting those who don't exist within the natural centers of power.

[Aerin]

Among all the cities staging the various protests, Portland is the last one I would expect to break out into a riot.

There's been a group of anarchists who've been trying to hijack protests up in the northwest the last couple of years. IIRC there was a May Day protest up in Seattle not long ago that broke into a (relatively small) riot.

[Marootsoobutsu]

who said it would be rewriting the rules? it would more like ruling the electoral college unconstitutional, which is essentially clarifying and sticking to the rules of the constitution. (though granted there would be rule rewriting technically.)

i dunno, it just seems that unequal representation is a violation of individual rights.

The idea of One Man One Vote isn't Constitutional... it was something arbitrarily decided by the Warren Court, and it's become stuck as an essential. Perhaps it is, but I disagree (see above). One Man One Vote is a bogeyman that would make people feel good, but it removes the access to levers of power to those who don't live in natural power centers, and ultimately disenfranchises them-- even, indirectly, politically, as the mechanisms of power outside of politics will still push their levers to influence politics. The Senate is the strongest example of protection against this, but the President must have some degree of this, as well, protecting both individuals *and* states, and representing both.

[Melena]

With the protests, Oakland announced how many were arrested last night at 30, with 18 of them being from out of the Bay Area and in some instances out of state. Sounds like shit heads taking advantage of the protests to start shit yet again

[Cjskater]

With the protests, Oakland announced how many were arrested last night at 30, with 18 of them being from out of the Bay Area and in some instances out of state. Sounds like shit heads taking advantage of the protests to start shit yet again

Somebody posted a screenshot of a tweet awhile back showing a huge line of buses before the houston? (or austin?) protests the first night. It has been like this pretty much the whole election. You'll see a lot of the same faces at these protests. I don't know if they're organizers being bused around or just grunts to pass out their signs. Basically: not surprised

[BerenTebogo]

Unsure where this belongs, but I stumbled across this and just couldn't keep it to myself.

No matter who you are, who you support, or what you believe, I think we can all come together and laugh like fuck at this statement.

[Marootsoobutsu]

Unsure where this belongs, but I stumbled across this and just couldn't keep it to myself.

No matter who you are, who you support, or what you believe, I think we can all come together and laugh like fuck at this statement.

ilu for this. Because I seriously needed a laugh.

[Aerin]

Somebody posted a screenshot of a tweet awhile back showing a huge line of buses before the houston? (or austin?) protests the first night. It has been like this pretty much the whole election. You'll see a lot of the same faces at these protests. I don't know if they're organizers being bused around or just grunts to pass out their signs. Basically: not surprised

You mean this?

[Zoner]

Unsure where this belongs, but I stumbled across this and just couldn't keep it to myself.

No matter who you are, who you support, or what you believe, I think we can all come together and laugh like fuck at this statement.

Isn't BLM funded by Soros? Kinda funny how they basically disappeared during the general election and just now reappeared.

Sent from my SM-G925P using Tapatalk

[chazzyphizzle]

lol

[Cjskater]

You mean this?

Yes. My main point was the fact that the same protestors show up at locations across the country and have been doing it all election though. I can't find the pics on my HDD, folder I save shit in is too big, but around the time of the O'Keefe video people started pointing out the reoccurring faces. Like the guy who wore the KKK hood and got punched, pretty sure he was one of them that showed up at multiple locations. There's also a guy who I remember walked past during his interview that also showed up at the Arizona event (previously Missouri area). Maybe one of the other memers in here has the pics, I can't find them in the 4chan archives.

They take a normal protest and turn it into something stupid every time.