2016 USA Presidential election thread II: And. Here. We. Go!

[Zoner]

kek^

Also going to post it here because somebody will use it in an argument again and I'll be too lazy to correct them by that point because I'll have to actually search on google for it.


http://wreg.com/2016/12/21/mississip...th-vote-trump/

Stuff originally thought to be done by Trump supporters:


Gary Nathaniel Moore, 37, has been accused of setting fire to the mosque where he prayed multiple times each day. He was arrested Wednesday. (Photo courtesy of Harris County Sheriffs Department)


Jasskirat Saini, 20, of Plainview, New York, was charged with aggravated harassment on Wednesday for drawing racist messages on his college campus starting Oct. 15. Nassau County Police said they caught him on Tuesday drawing swastikas and KKK messages on the Garden City property.

“[Mr. Saini] told police he did it because he felt he was being harassed,” WABC reporter Diana Rocco told the station.




This chick just did anti-Trump graffiti:



The Los Angeles Sheriff’s Department described damage to “several historical Los Angeles monumental landmarks” at the hands of the vandal. The vandalism took place approximately just before 6 p.m. on Sunday evening. The Los Angeles Times referenced LASD spokesman Deputy Kelvin Moody when describing the blue spray-painted messages as “vulgarities about [President-elect Donald] Trump and other writings about the president-elect.”


I have more but too sleepy to dig for it.

[dasva]

The figures would have me believe it doesn't seem to be some kind of widespread problem, at least not when compared to figures of victims not reporting incidents (depending on what crime we're talking here I mean). Yeah it sucks that some people are assholes, but I don't think a situation where people are scared to report because they might be punished severely for filing a false one would be good either.

It's kind to say largely because of the different standards used on each. Generally speaking figures on false reports are based on actually proving often in court that the report was false and made knowingly so. Something that can be hard to do and often not worth the effort to pursue anyways. But logically speaking a fair number of those not concretely proven either way should well be either way. While figures on not reporting are usually based on informal reporting systems/surveys and not proven though this somewhat depends on the crime as some are more apparent on their own. Yes plenty of them are true but we have little way of even coming close to knowing how many. While you certainly can't assume (especially legally) that unproven claims are false you also can't really assume all claims formal or otherwise are true as that is effectively a guilty until proven innocent. But that's often how we treat these things outside of the court. The court of public opinions might not have legal bindings but it's still dangerous to base public discourse on placing the burden of proof upon the accused just as it would be assume all are false. It would be best to compare not to blanket believe either way until some level of proof exists

As far as punishment I agree people filing real claims shouldn't have to fear punishment for it which is why legally we should and do have the same (and in some cases greater) burden of proof on that as the actual crime being reported itself. With that being the case such fear shouldn't be anymore of a concern than anyone doing anything. But for claims proven to be knowingly false there needs to be real consequences that fit the severity. Because at the end of the day there is little difference from committing an act against someone yourself or getting the state to do it for you.

[dasva]

Say build the wall to a Hispanic person's face and see how it goes. Build the wall is like calling someone an illegal immigrant and not about immigration reform.

idk man the other week had some random Hispanic guy on the street just come up to me and tell me he loves Trump. Weirdest thing ever

[Jaybar]

Idk what the big deal is if Trump can get away with saying he heard Muslims cheering on 9/11 why can't these people get away too.

[Dimmauk]

Idk what the big deal is if Trump can get away with saying he heard Muslims cheering on 9/11 why can't these people get away too.

It's only ok for white men to do it.

[Andalusian girls]

the FBI reported 5,818 hate crimes in 2015, a 6% rise over 2014

the Southern Poverty Law Center, which does fine work, is reporting 1094 incidents in a single month meaning over half of them could be falsified and it would still represent a significant increase in pace.

posting evidence of 2 or 3 or 8 falsified hate crimes this year mostly proves that you desperately need to take a statistics course

[Day]

1000 unconfirmed "reports" in a month in a population of 318 million doesn't seem like a reason for Trump hysteria like SPLC would lead me to believe.

This chart is also telling, I guess the racists just got tired after a couple weeks:

[Andalusian girls]

are you really discrediting their data and then immediately using their data to try and make a point

[Day]

I'm discrediting their data by saying it's completely unconfirmed reports and using their data to show you how silly it looks when you look at it yes.

[Niiro]

Why is it so outlandish to think that hate crimes would spike just after Trump's victory and decrease in the following weeks.

A lot of awful people were at their most riled up and emboldened just after the election, but you wouldn't expect them to go around doing this stuff perpetually any more than you'd expect the protests against his win to go on and on.

People get it out of their system and go back to work.

[Aerin]

I will premise this with saying that it angers me whenever I see hoaxes for anything so serious, because it just makes it that much harder for the legitimate cases.

I don't think it's far fetched to say that people have certainly been more open with regards to their distaste for minorities. People shouting hateful things at minorities doesn't generally get a 911 call unless it escalates into a physical altercation. I think that whatever hysteria there might be among minorities comes from the fact that Trump lashed out in some way against virtually every minority in the country. Not to mention Trump saying at his rallies things like "beat the hell out of them" in regards to those that disrupted his rallies, speaking out against him.

I also don't think it's a wild idea to say that immediately following his election, some were caught up in the fervor. There were legitimate people protesting immediately after the election, did their fears just wane after those first few days and that's why we don't see anymore protests?

Edit: Niiro beat me.

[Dimmauk]

I bet all those fake claims of racism were done by crisis actors to delegitimize real claims

[archibaldcrane]

Paid by Soros obviously

[arus2001]

More of a general disappointment, but Kasich apparently signed a bill in Ohio prohibiting regional minimum wage increases from surpassing the state sanctioned. While not the only state to do so, I kinda feel like if an area wants to try and potentially succeed at it, they really shouldn't be held back from doing so. Still, at $8.10 an hour, that national $15 goalpost seems decades off. :/

This, after the other recent abortion restrictions, makes me wonder why he was such a golden boy for some around here.

[Galkaeater]

by the time you get to $15 the new exspansion wil be out and you'll be needing $20

[kuronosan]

More of a general disappointment, but Kasich apparently signed a bill in Ohio prohibiting regional minimum wage increases from surpassing the state sanctioned. While not the only state to do so, I kinda feel like if an area wants to try and potentially succeed at it, they really shouldn't be held back from doing so. Still, at $8.10 an hour, that national $15 goalpost seems decades off. :/

This, after the other recent abortion restrictions, makes me wonder why he was such a golden boy for some around here.

Because people are stupid and he wasn't Trump, but was the best candidate the GOP was fielding.

[Patriarch]

More of a general disappointment, but Kasich apparently signed a bill in Ohio prohibiting regional minimum wage increases from surpassing the state sanctioned. While not the only state to do so, I kinda feel like if an area wants to try and potentially succeed at it, they really shouldn't be held back from doing so. Still, at $8.10 an hour, that national $15 goalpost seems decades off. :/

This, after the other recent abortion restrictions, makes me wonder why he was such a golden boy for some around here.

This is slightly off the topic at hand, but not sure where to post it so I'll plant it here.

I've always been curious to this $15 min wage. I'll let it be known that I'm indifferent on the wage increase, but I completely understand why so many would be in favor. Would this go on a state to state basis, or just a blanket increase across the country? For states that have a much higher standard living cost, it would make a lot of sense. Here in Indiana, not as much.

If it were to be enacted, how would folks with higher wages be affected? As an example, I make somewhere in the mid $20s/h, would my wages be increased by a % comparable to everyone else's, or would I remain where I currently am?

Also, would the increase of wages to $15 not drive inflation to the point where the effectiveness of the wage increase would almost be nullified by further hikes in living costs, and/or automation replacing workers due to companies not willing to shell out great deal more in wages?

[kuronosan]

So to answer that question as a non-economist, theoretically all wages should shift since consumer buying power would go up, necessitating better labor or providing higher profits and allowing for increased wages across the board.

I'll let someone who actually knows way more about how that works than I do answer you, but I imagine that is the idea.

[archibaldcrane]

The most important thing is that any increase would be phased in, so it wouldn't be a shock to the system.

[Talint]

Why Did Planned Parenthood Supporters Vote Trump?

Trump pledged to strip Planned Parenthood’s federal funding unless it stops performing abortions. But many of the people in the focus groups didn’t know he’d made this assurance, and those who did didn’t take it seriously. It seemed as if Trump’s lasciviousness, which Clinton hoped would disqualify Trump with women, actually worked in his favor. The focus group participants couldn’t imagine that Trump would enact a religious right agenda. “He’s probably paid for a few abortions himself,” said the 58-year-old in Phoenix, eliciting a roomful of laughs.

You know, just when I think I'm over just how fucking shitty the DNC and this campaign was run, I am told of new, clever ways in which the campaign was fucking shitty.