2016 USA Presidential election thread II: And. Here. We. Go!

**Tyrath** · 2016-12-30 12:29

Originally Posted by dasva

Sort of. It's still illegal but the bill stops the minor being exploited from being charged with a crime and instead treats them like the victim they probably are taking them into custody and contacting parents and social services

But how can they demonize democrats if they don't word it like they did????

**dasva** · 2016-12-30 12:34

Originally Posted by Tyrath

But how can they demonize democrats if they don't word it like they did????

I'm sure it's possible. If you are inventive and try hard enough you can demonize anyone for anything

**Ragnus** · 2016-12-30 13:13

Originally Posted by Zoner

I blame the 9hr LFG queues for DRKs back in 2006

Understandable.

**Aerin** · 2016-12-30 13:35

Originally Posted by Day

What a week, "literally Hitler" defending the Jews, Easter Island Kerry supporting Hamas, Kasich vetoing a bill that would have halted renewable energy, California decriminalizes child prostitution, apparently Malik Obama runs the UK Russian Embassay twitter Account, Obama finally called the 1980s and told them we aren't returning Romney's foreign policy cause Podesta got phished... we almost done w 2016 fellas, been pretty good threads this year :3

I shall leave 2016 with Mr. Washington. Happy almost end of 2016 boys.

Zoner must be green with envy with the sheer amount of half truths and reality distortions in this post.

**Day** · 2016-12-30 13:58

I worked hard on that post so I hope so!

**Krandor** · 2016-12-30 14:10

I can't believe that Russian Embassy tweet is real.

**Day** · 2016-12-30 14:53

tfw pres elect better troll than i could ever be

(he pinned it)

I swear this is how these must go:

Spoiler: show

**myreality** · 2016-12-30 15:31

https://www.yahoo.com/news/heres-wha...07.html?ref=gs

Barack Obama will be the last president of the US: Baba Vanga had predicted that the 44th US president would be an African American, but she had also added that he would be the last one. According to her, he would leave office at a time when the country would be in economic ruins, and there would be a huge divide between the northern and southern states – as was the case during the American Civil War.

**Headspace** · 2016-12-30 20:55

Originally Posted by Day

tfw pres elect better troll than i could ever be

(he pinned it)

I swear this is how these must go:

Spoiler: show

"Troll"

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**Day** · 2016-12-30 21:27

**Gredival** · 2017-01-01 21:11

Said it before; Reagan Democrats all over again. Economically disadvantaged whites, for whatever reason, don't primarily identify by their economic status.

The more frightening possibility for liberals is that Clinton didn’t lose because the white working class failed to hear her message, but precisely because they did hear it.

[....]

Trump’s white voters do support the mommy state, but only so long as it’s mothering them. Most of them don’t seem eager to change Medicare or Social Security, but they’re fine with repealing Obamacare and its more diverse pool of 20 million insured people. They’re happy for the government to pick winners and losers, so long as beleaguered coal and manufacturing companies are in the winner’s circle. Massive deficit-financed spending on infrastructure? Under Obama, that was dangerous government overreach, but under Trump, it’s a jobs plan by a guy they know won’t let Muslims and Mexicans cut in line to get work renovating highways and airports.

http://theatln.tc/2iO3F60

**kuronosan** · 2017-01-01 21:14

Wait folks are just now realizing this?

**Gredival** · 2017-01-01 21:37

No, but I think the take home message is that "a lack of messaging" focused on "working class whites" wasn't the issue, it's that demographics alone can't win the White House atm (due to the existence of the electoral college and swing states) and that there is a giant bloc of white "moderates" who react adversely to when Democrats start caring about people other than them.

The work of Democratic pollster Stan Greenberg is a classic study of Reagan Democrats. Greenberg analyzed white ethnic voters (largely unionized auto workers) in Macomb County, Michigan, just north of Detroit. The county voted 63 percent for John F. Kennedy in 1960, but 66 percent for Reagan in 1980. He concluded that "Reagan Democrats" no longer saw the Democratic party as champions of their working class aspirations, but instead saw them as working primarily for the benefit of others: the very poor, feminists, the unemployed, African Americans, Latinos, and other groups. In addition, Reagan Democrats enjoyed gains during the period of economic prosperity that coincided with the Reagan administration following the "malaise" of the Carter administration. They also supported Reagan's strong stance on national security and opposed the 1980s Democratic Party on such issues as pornography, crime, and high taxes

[....]

in many ways the Reagan Democrat phenomenon returned in 2016, when Macomb County went for Republican Donald Trump by a margin of over ten percentage points.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reagan_Democrat

That's not to say that the path forward is fighting to win these people over and forsaking everything that makes the Democratic Party the liberal party. It is to say that the Democrats need to realize that a big tent is great, but not all tent occupants can get along with each other (at least on the left where party discipline is so low compared to the right). And to find a path forward you need to account not just for the people you will gain through inclusiveness but the people you will lose in virtue of that inclusiveness.

**Quicklet** · 2017-01-01 21:50

So basically you're saying a lot of people are racist (or make political decisions influenced by racist undertones) and it's hard to appeal to those people if not being racist is an important principle you want to keep.

**Krandor** · 2017-01-01 21:56

Oh good, we're back to blaming racism.

**Gredival** · 2017-01-01 22:09

I wouldn't call it racism as much as the Homer Simpson political philosophy "All I want is what everyone wants: preferential treatment."

http://www.simpsonsworld.com/video/277308483645

All politics is special interest, all spending is pork. It's just about whether or not it's your interest and your bacon. Democrats are telling these people that they are part of the bigger cross-section of society that are served by their policies, but that's not enough.

**Gredival** · 2017-01-01 22:16

And being fair with that assessment, you could cynically argue that the only reason minorities like "equality" and "justice" isn't the principle of it but merely because equality is a proportionally bigger slice than they are getting right now.

**Kincard** · 2017-01-01 22:36

Originally Posted by Krandor

Oh good, we're back to blaming racism.

What else would you call the logic "I'm okay with social programs up until the point they're also used to help people not like me"? You don't think implicit racial biases factor into that?

Hell a lot of it isn't even implicit anymore. This time Trump ran on a platform of supposedly being a champion of the working class yet that somehow didn't deter right-leaning libertarians and the Randian Republicans from voting for him. What message do you want minorities to take away from that?

And I will agree with Gredival's assessment that plenty of people are only against racism for purely self-centered reasons, but all that is is an appeal to motive.

**Thunder** · 2017-01-01 23:13

Originally Posted by Kincard

"I'm okay with social programs up until the point they're also used to help people not like me"?

???

isn't that a perfectly natural tendency? To vote for your own interests, over the interests of others? And that's kind of the point of democracy, to provide what 'the people' want/need? And wouldn't it make sense that poor(er) and more disenfranchised people would be the ones to be less-altruistic and NOT think about helping out people worse off than they are?

Maybe this is the proper response a democracy should have to trying to help too many people, too quickly. And that isn't to say that we couldn't provide everything everyone wants.. just that democracy worked, and democracy isn't the most efficient... but all the other systems of dealing with so many people are worse. What can ya do

edit: I'm not saying it CAN'T be majorly influenced by racism btw, just saying that it doesn't have to be according to what I've read^

**Quicklet** · 2017-01-01 23:28

Hard to say that democracy worked when the person who got the most votes didn't win.

Also I think it's fair to say that racism isn't the *only* thing at play here, but it's certainly a significant component explaining Trump's support.

Thread: 2016 USA Presidential election thread II: And. Here. We. Go!

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