President Donald J. Trump: Orange is the New Black, House Slytherin Rises Also Heil Trump!

[Quicklet]

If you're advocating for the EC reversing the vote and electing Clinton you're looking to cause the biggest national crisis in American history. That would sow chaos on a scale unseen in decades worldwide.

Civil war wouldn't even be too much of a stretch in such a situation.

I would much rather put up with even the worst case scenario of a 4 years of Trump than permanently and severely fracture the country at its core.

Honestly, we're heading down that path anyway regardless of outcome. The Republicans are the party of white supremacy now.

[Infini]

If you're advocating for the EC reversing the vote and electing Clinton you're looking to cause the biggest national crisis in American history. That would sow chaos on a scale unseen in decades worldwide.

Civil war wouldn't even be too much of a stretch in such a situation.

I would much rather put up with even the worst case scenario of a 4 years of Trump than permanently and severely fracture the country at its core.

Thats if the damage hasnt been done already. Even so I doubt there would be civil war since republicans would still be in charge of congress but a constitutional crisis might be whats needed to sort out a clearly damaged and toxic system.

[kuronosan]

This just in, a system designed to prevent tyranny by populism will cause an uprising to prevent tyranny by populism.

[Tymon]

Honestly, we're heading down that path anyway regardless of outcome. The Republicans are the party of white supremacy now.

I'm not going to deny that there are a supremely disgusting number of white supremacists in the GOP (honestly there have always been a ton) but I think you might be relating the party as a whole a little too closely to /pol/ and /r/The_Donald.

I would be quicker to say that the Republicans are the party of angry old people upset and vengeful that the government decided for the first time in decades (before this election) not to cater to their every whim.

[Tymon]

Thats if the damage hasnt been done already. Even so I doubt there would be civil war since republicans would still be in charge of congress but a constitutional crisis might be whats needed to sort out a clearly damaged and toxic system.

I don't think it would be a constitutional crisis, as "faithless voters" is already accounted for and is wholly constitutional. It would just be a regular crisis.

You'd need 40 something faithless voters, or more if some of those didn't vote at all. All 40 something would have to vote for Clinton instead.

[Quicklet]

I'm not going to deny that there are a supremely disgusting number of white supremacists in the GOP (honestly there have always been a ton) but I think you might be relating the party as a whole a little too closely to /pol/ and /r/The_Donald.

I would be quicker to say that the Republicans are the party of angry old people upset and vengeful that the government decided for the first time in decades (before this election) not to cater to their every whim.

The problem is that this didn't start with Trump. The Republican party actively courted the support of these people thinking they could control them, and now that it's out of control they're along for the ride.

Not all Trump voters/supporters actively participated in racist or bigoted actions, but they passively tolerated a virulent ideology that threatens the fabric of our society. It's like saying "Hitler didn't really mean all that stuff about the Jews, he just wants to stick it to the system and get us our jobs back." It's like someone trying to argue "I'm not okay with slavery, but I'll vote for the guy who is because he supports states' rights." You can't separate the two.

[Aerin]

As much as I loathe Trump and the people he's surrounding himself with, I struggle to see how anyone put in his place would be seen as legitimate. If the EC doesn't go Trump's way... I mean there's already so many people who don't understand the EC system and just see it as how we elect a president and the results are the results. That's it, finished no room for it to go any other way.

[kuronosan]

The problem is that this didn't start with Trump. The Republican party actively courted the support of these people thinking they could control them, and now that it's out of control they're along for the ride.

Not all Trump voters/supporters actively participated in racist or bigoted actions, but they passively tolerated a virulent ideology that threatens the fabric of our society. It's like saying "Hitler didn't really mean all that stuff about the Jews, he just wants to stick it to the system and get us our jobs back." It's like someone trying to argue "I'm not okay with slavery, but I'll vote for the guy who is because he supports states' rights." You can't separate the two.

The way I see this is that they are justified in their vote, but if they sit in complacency instead of standing up when shit goes south they are just as guilty.

[Infini]

The way I see this is that they are justified in our vote, but if they sit in complacency instead of standing up when shit goes south they are just as guilty.

Id agree the stats there a while back showed that the republicans didnt get more votes but rather the democratic vote collapsed. Even tho Clinton got the nomination I wonder if making sanders VP might have changed the end result

[Quicklet]

The way I see this is that they are justified in our vote, but if they sit in complacency instead of standing up when shit goes south they are just as guilty.

I guess, but I feel like that position pretends that nothing Trump said on the campaign trail had any meaning, something that I fully reject (and is evidenced by the way that minorities are being harassed and intimidated in the aftermath of his election).

Like everyone I hope that we get the best possible outcome out of all of this, but I'm not going to pretend like the things that got Trump to power didn't happen. He's on a short leash and people won't tolerate it if he tries to make good on his extremist positions.

[kuronosan]

I think you're wrong. I think it'll always be that way and people will continue saying nothing because it's not "their responsibility".

[Quicklet]

Maybe, but then those people are morally wrong if they continue to support Trump or if they are against the people willing to stand up to Trumpism.

[Niiro]

I'm reminded of a quote about Muslim extremists (paraphrasing):

The moderate Muslim does not want to kill you, but he's not going to mind when the extremist Muslim does.

The moderate Trump voter does not hate Mexicans/Muslims/gay people, but he's not going to speak up when they start having their rights taken away.

[kuronosan]

I'm reminded of a quote about Muslim extremists (paraphrasing):

The moderate Muslim does not want to kill you, but he's not going to mind when the extremist Muslim does.

The moderate Trump voter does not hate Mexicans/Muslims/gay people, but he's not going to speak up when they start having their rights taken away.

Pretty much.

[ThreeOneLead]

I feel that a moderate Muslim would mind that kinda shit.


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[Niiro]

"Moderate" is always going to be a subjective term and it's very difficult to get an idea of what a moderate is among a group of more than a billion people from wildly different cultures all across the world.

A moderate Muslim in the US is not a moderate Muslim in Saudi Arabia.

In the case of people who voted for Trump it's a much more narrow definition, but it's safe to say that not everyone that voted for him is racist/sexist/etc but they were not bothered enough by his rhetoric to not vote for him.

[Karbuncle]

I see and hear Muslims talking against and disowning the Muslim extremists all the time when acts of terrorism come up.. "Moderate" seems like a very flexible and subjective term.

[kuronosan]

My father basically voted Trump because Hillary "had too much baggage" and Donald, whether he was full of shit or not, seemed to care about the working class more.

That's pretty much what I've been hearing from *everyone* (besides the racist people I don't bother with) on their reasoning. When I bring up the potential for social damage, I just get told the same thing by everyone as well: "it's just an exaggeration blah blah".

Yea, no.

edit: also, they seem to have forgotten the Obama protests back in the day with the Hitler signs et al, because when I bring that up they just tell me it happens every election.

Mmkay.

[zoobernut]

How does Trump have less baggage than Hillary? How many lawsuits has Trump been part of? How many lawsuits are pending against Trump?
Isn't there even talk of Trump being charged with criminal fraud regarding his university?

[kuronosan]

Yep, and I bring all that up. The response is pretty much all the same "Well, BENGHAZI" or "Well, WATERGATE" or "Well, EMAILS" or "Well, HE CAMPAIGNED MOAR".