DNC Restructuring

[Xajii]

Fixed that for you.

Thankfully you're just one guy on a video game forum, but this ridiculous lack of introspection does not bode well for the party.

Stein votes didn't even move the needle. Fact of the matter is Bernie beat Hillary in states she ended up losing narrowly in the general and that's not a coincidence.

Left slacktivism is always going to be a problem, but it's a fool's errand to absolve the party of its responsibility to energize the base.

Don't conflate Internet hard leftism to working class leftism that actually lost the Dems the election.

Yea in retrospect I think the issue is they're just trying to win elections/states, instead of winning over voters. I don't think hard left is the answer.

I could argue the exact opposite is what happened with the DNC. There's plenty of data showing that the Hillary campaign just didn't give a damn about the States she ended up losing (Wisconsin, et al).

Look no further than the famous Schumer quote about voters in PA and the Panera bread bullshit. These are voters, not elections/states, and they all live in the same counties that are going blue anyway. Winning over moderates is an useless battle and they aren't who cost the Dems the election. It was the working class who heard the DNC try to bargain on every single issue that mattered to them, all the way down to a 12.50 minimum wage instead of 15, or a simple re-tooling of our broken health care system, all while claiming America is already great, all while using real tragedies as political props.

I'm not even that far left, to the extent that I don't really support publicly funded higher ed, and I don't think socialism should be any sort of goal, but I think you guys are fucking kidding yourselves if you think this current Democratic party is "the most progressive in history" or some nonsense. I hate claims like that anyway, because they lack context. Y'all acting like Hillary and Schumer are to the left of FDR or something when they can't even agree to pay people a living wage, lmao.

[archibaldcrane]

I like how the definition of "base" to some people is "those who will not show up if they have any reservations whatsoever".

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Niiro]

Well it's certainly basic.

[Niiro]

[Gredival]

Thankfully you're just one guy on a video game forum, but this ridiculous lack of introspection does not bode well for the party.

Stein votes didn't even move the needle. Fact of the matter is Bernie beat Hillary in states she ended up losing narrowly in the general and that's not a coincidence.

Left slacktivism is always going to be a problem, but it's a fool's errand to absolve the party of its responsibility to energize the base.

Don't conflate Internet hard leftism to working class leftism that actually lost the Dems the election.



I could argue the exact opposite is what happened with the DNC. There's plenty of data showing that the Hillary campaign just didn't give a damn about the States she ended up losing (Wisconsin, et al).

Look no further than the famous Schumer quote about voters in PA and the Panera bread bullshit. These are voters, not elections/states, and they all live in the same counties that are going blue anyway. Winning over moderates is an useless battle and they aren't who cost the Dems the election. It was the working class who heard the DNC try to bargain on every single issue that mattered to them, all the way down to a 12.50 minimum wage instead of 15, or a simple re-tooling of our broken health care system, all while claiming America is already great, all while using real tragedies as political props.

I'm not even that far left, to the extent that I don't really support publicly funded higher ed, and I don't think socialism should be any sort of goal, but I think you guys are fucking kidding yourselves if you think this current Democratic party is "the most progressive in history" or some nonsense. I hate claims like that anyway, because they lack context. Y'all acting like Hillary and Schumer are to the left of FDR or something when they can't even agree to pay people a living wage, lmao.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...ts_133718.html

The increasing extremism of the fringes does not change the politics of those in the center. It's not that the center is dying; it's still there. The problem is that the extremists are getting increasingly petulant and forcing the parties to cater to them or lose them.

This, like the electoral/geographic map, is an inherent advantage to the GOP because they do not care about bartering civil rights, the environment, the poor, etc. in order to get their tax cuts and deregulation. So they will happily make that deal with the devil and accept imminent annihilation of everyone for immediate gain for them and those they cater to. The Dems are in a more difficult position of actually having to pull a balancing act to try hold onto as much of the left as they can without losing their appeal to center. And yes, that means a lot of compromising because the "center" of the US is right-leaning compared to most other countries. (And that's because our depressingly low turn-out and disenfranchisement hurts the left more, but as we just saw the Democrats can't win an election by pandering to people that don't and won't vote.)

That's what the author is trying to confront here. The balance the Dems need between centrist and left is whatever optimizes vote yield. People are taking Clinton's loss as a sign that going hard left is the superior strategy. But that denies the reality of what happened in the election. Progressive politics are precisely what drove traditionally democratic votes to Trump. It's the Reagan Democrats all over again. There is a (geographically) significant portion of the country that is only loyal to Democrats so long as they feel Democrats are "their party." As Greenberg described them, they will become turncoats as soon as they see the party "working primarily for the benefit of others: the very poor, feminists, the unemployed, African Americans, Latinos, and other groups" Is that a tremendously flawed? Of course it is! But guess what? Veering left doesn't fix that.

A lot of these problems can be masked by simply having a top level candidate. While I still absolutely believe HRC would have been a fantastic President in terms of the ability to actually politick, my "lack of introspection" leads me to conclude that she was a horrible candidate. And that's ultimately because people don't perceive her as personable and likeable which matters more than qualifications and ability.

The takeaway from Obama's two victories should be that, fundamentally, the Democrats are striking an acceptable balance in policy that the American public won't reject. What we need is good packaging to sell that vision. Because in reality, voters aren't making a choice based on any coherent understanding of international relations, economic policy, etc. They are making a choice based on who they think will work for them (and in some cases, that is an exclusive "them").

So where that leaves us is that Democrats need to start valuing charisma more.

[Fiye]

Nah Hillbot 2020

[Gredival]

Joe in 2020, and I'm serious

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...20-veep-237790

[Fiye]

Really hyped for a Joe on Trump debate. He has the charisma necessary but he has to somehow be able to satiate the bernie-or-bust types.

Granted I think he'd be able to do it better than Hillary can, between a combination of not sexism and not having decades of republican dirt, but eh. Hopefully Bernie's national push can get a candidate that's better than him.

Edit: Also if chelsea clinton could just go the fuck away that'd be gr8.

[Byrthnoth]

idk if you guys have noticed but joe biden is older than most dirt

I'm willing to wish he was our current president but unwilling to start rooting for him for an election that will take place 3 years from now

[Day]

Could have swore he just said in last couple days he wasn't running, and we know politicians would never lie to us

Edit: Also if chelsea clinton could just go the fuck away that'd be gr8.

thiiisss so hard

[Fiye]

Biden's never counted out a 2020 run but he'd be old as dirt. The same as Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders.

DNC really needs to start winning some local elections otherwise all we'll have are fucking cremated remains.

Also because Chapo: https://medium.com/@MarisaKabas/chel...t-400e195c4ae9

[Gredival]

Really hyped for a Joe on Trump debate. He has the charisma necessary but he has to somehow be able to satiate the bernie-or-bust types.

He said previously that if he had run, he would have nominated Warren as his VP. Rationally speaking, I think that's the biggest olive branch you can extend to the economically hyper left. But Bernie bros. aren't exactly rational; after seeing them wash their hands of this disaster, even another McGovern catastrophe probably won't be enough.

[Fiye]

You have the Majority Report type bernie bros which are mad as well that the TYT Bernie Bros (Specific people like fucking Jimmy Dore) fucking stumped for Jill Stein. Really hope DNC start working on a policy plan to setup for 2018 and go into 2020.

[tyven]

I think its important that no one get hyped for a 78 year old to run for president in 2020. US politics, like top lawfirms, should have a hard age limit. Ronald Reagan ran the country with early alzheimers. Convincing arguments to be made that Trump is doing that same because seriously no one should be as fucking retarded as he is.

[Fiye]

But Tyven who can we trust to not pull a john kerry.

[tyven]

But Tyven who can we trust to not pull a john kerry.

no one. Every dem sucks. I don't see that changing between now and 2019. Maybe Kirsten Gillibrand isn't terrible, I don't know much about her but I assume she's as bad as the rest.

Zuckerberg 2020?

[Fiye]

What 'bout Ted Lieu?

[Quicklet]

I'd really like to see some younger faces running in 2020. I'd be happy with Biden but I don't know if I would vote for him in the primary depending on the alternatives.

I really don't want Bernie to run again. He took his shot and didn't make it, and he needs to be content that he showed that there's a large appetite for progressive populism in this country.

[Gryffes]

But Tyven who can we trust to not pull a john kerry.

As long as they don't try and "headfake" by not putting resources into closely contested states to convince their opponent not to either.

Lol.


So outside of creepy joe and Pocahontas who has a shot at taking the free win ( that it should be ) in 2020?

[tyven]

What 'bout Ted Lieu?

an asian president would be fucking dope but is there even rumor that he's gearing up for a run?