DNC Restructuring

[Quicklet]

maybe these neolibs will finally understand they aren't fooling anyone but themselves

Not sure if serious, but I call bullshit on this. This is more an indication of how badly people have been brainwashed by media narrative than actual policy.

I bet if you asked these people how they felt about Occupy Wall Street, they'd tell you they were a bunch of millennial bums wanting to freeload off the system, while in the same breath saying that Dodd-Frank was bad.

[Fiye]

People honestly believe that democrats only work for the 1% and republicans work for buisnesses.

[Quicklet]

The best investment the DNC could make for 2018 is in deprogramming techniques.

[Byrthnoth]

Obligatory: https://www.theoatmeal.com/comics/believe

I'll say that the pseudo-neuroscience behind it is poorly framed at best (like the plot of all fMRI studies, it is a story that explains noise), but the stronger information -> stronger denial relationship is real.

[Fiye]

We just need to start thumping upon topics that democrats are strong in. Stop debating abortion, gun rights, small buisnesses, etc.. etc..

[Talint]

Not sure if serious, but I call bullshit on this. This is more an indication of how badly people have been brainwashed by media narrative than actual policy.

I bet if you asked these people how they felt about Occupy Wall Street, they'd tell you they were a bunch of millennial bums wanting to freeload off the system, while in the same breath saying that Dodd-Frank was bad.

I mean, the average voter isn't a policy wonk. If they were, then we'd have President Hillary ordering strikes on Syrian airports.

Liberals don't seem to get this.

[Quicklet]

It's not even a matter of wonkiness though. When twice as many people in that focus group think that Democrats are more pro-corporation than Donald Trump, it's a reflection of a distorted view of reality, not just a lack of understanding of policy details.

[tyven]

It's not even a matter of wonkiness though. When twice as many people in that focus group think that Democrats are more pro-corporation than Donald Trump, it's a reflection of a distorted view of reality, not just a lack of understanding of policy details.

the voters that went Obama-Trump lost entire communities while watching wall street and auto get bailed out and the market hit hot new heights. Barack stocked his cabinet with wall street and rarely made good on his change you can believe in. Trump said "Make America Great Again" Hillary said "America is Already Great". Which one do you think sounded more appealing to the lost voters?

Bernie would have won

[Fiye]

Bernie would have won

Not sure if sarcasm, Gredival bait, or serious.

[Gredival]

I mean, the average voter isn't a policy wonk. If they were, then we'd have President Hillary ordering strikes on Syrian airports.

Liberals don't seem to get this.

Two pages back

The takeaway from Obama's two victories should be that, fundamentally, the Democrats are striking an acceptable balance in policy that the American public won't reject. What we need is good packaging to sell that vision. Because in reality, voters aren't making a choice based on any coherent understanding of international relations, economic policy, etc. They are making a choice based on who they think will work for them (and in some cases, that is an exclusive "them").

[Talint]

It's not even a matter of wonkiness though. When twice as many people in that focus group think that Democrats are more pro-corporation than Donald Trump, it's a reflection of a distorted view of reality, not just a lack of understanding of policy details.

Curious to know why you think this is a distorted view of reality and not reality.

edit

Two pages back

I mean, trying to navigate the extreme balance that somehow appeases both wall street's big business demands and the average voter requires, by it's nature, wonkiness.

[archibaldcrane]

Curious to know why you think this is a distorted view of reality and not reality.

Uhhh

Have you looked at the Republican tax plan lately?

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[Fiye]

Yeah but Trump's a business man who's worth billions!

Hillary is just a crooked wall street politician!

[Fiye]

btw every republican on my facebook feed is excited about lower taxes and I'm like "Uuuuh, you're not getting them lol"

[Gredival]

I mean, trying to navigate the extreme balance that somehow appeases both wall street's big business demands and the average voter requires, by it's nature, wonkiness.

The Democrats are hardly the slaves to corporate big business that Jill Stein would have us believe. Democrats believe in regulation, but they also recognize capitalism as a system isn't going anywhere.

[Quicklet]

the voters that went Obama-Trump lost entire communities while watching wall street and auto get bailed out and the market hit hot new heights. Barack stocked his cabinet with wall street and rarely made good on his change you can believe in. Trump said "Make America Great Again" Hillary said "America is Already Great". Which one do you think sounded more appealing to the lost voters?

Bernie would have won

Obama bailed out the auto companies yet MI went to Trump. Do you think if Obama had been tougher on Wall Street, sent some execs to jail, etc., that it would have generated enough good will in the midwest for Hillary to win those states?

Short of massive wealth redistribution from the wealthy to these communities, I don't see what would have been possible legislatively to make a difference here, and given that Republicans were busy trying to drive the country off a cliff with the debt ceiling, there's no way that would ever have been possible once the political capital was spent on getting the ACA through.

I don't disagree at all that a lot of this is rooted in economic and cultural backlash from the half of the country that is rotting away because of societal change. How do you fix health care exchanges in the rural parts of the country that insurers don't want to deal with, particularly when Republicans want to simply rip health care away from those people as opposed to doing something constructive? How do you get more people trained for high-skill labor as automation erodes away low-skill jobs, when going to college becomes indentured servitude for low-income students who require loans to obtain a degree?

For all of Hillary's flaws (and there are many), at least she had plans to work on these issues, even if they were inadequate. But emails, I guess.

And I agree with Gred -- Dems' primary issue right now is messaging more than policy. I'm becoming more convinced that a large segment of voters won't be convinced until they are conditioned by repeated catastrophic consequences of Republican policy to stop buying the snake oil.

[Gredival]

For all of Hillary's flaws (and there are many), at least she had plans to work on these issues, even if they were inadequate. But emails, I guess.

And I agree with Gred -- Dems' primary issue right now is messaging more than policy.

[ThreeOneLead]

For all of Hillary's flaws (and there are many), at least she had plans to work on these issues, even if they were inadequate. But emails, I guess.

Well Fight for Fifteen was a huge working class movement in some cities and she couldn't even latch on to that simple idea. "How about 12.50 an hour for you poors?" Was the best messaging she could do there.

The media is at fault here too. They spent far more coverage on emails than policy and treated her like a serious candidate, therefore far more critical, and him as a joke.

That said, Hillary has poor messaging herself. Majority of her ads focused on how shitty of a person Donald Trump is, which is true, but that's not enough to make people vote for her.

Also would help if she visited states instead of Arizona or having ads in Georgia. I don't think she came to FL at all. She did send "Me llamo Tim Kaine" down but he was an uninspired choice as well.

[Talint]

Uhhh

Have you looked at the Republican tax plan lately?

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I'll go back to what I said about being policy wonks.

This is a problem of the democrats' own making. They kill enthusiasm, they kill the need for a leadership change, they don't go on the offensive, and don't offer a clear vision of how they're for the voter; opting for messaging like "um, actually if you look at the republican tax plan it's a massive handout to billionaires, corporations, and really screws you over." You think these Obama->Trump voters care?

or:

btw every republican on my facebook feed is excited about lower taxes and I'm like "Uuuuh, you're not getting them lol"

Do you think they believe you? Or do you think they even care?

The Democrats are hardly the slaves to corporate big business that Jill Stein would have us believe. Democrats believe in regulation, but they also recognize capitalism as a system isn't going anywhere.

And yet we're so convinced that democrats will eventually bring us single payer health care. Joe Lieberman says hi. They can't even bring themselves to mention the words, instead finding themselves defending the original republican plan to get people health insurance.

SuperPACs and Citizens United have made the democrats scared that they must appeal more towards big business to compete with the unlimited cash flow that republicans get now. On some level, I get it. But I think that underestimates the amount of donations Obama and Bernie got over the course of their campaigns and the general good will there was.

[Tarage]

We just need to start thumping upon topics that democrats are strong in. Stop debating abortion, gun rights, small buisnesses, etc.. etc..

You should visit the flaming hellhole that is ex-gawker and see what they say about that shit. Any time you even THINK about lightning up on abortion you get a chorus of shrill "IT'S MY BODY" hysteria. They hate the fact that Bernie backed a candidate who didn't 100% match how they feel. You want entitled? This is entitled. Cut off your nose to spite your face.