Climate Change

[archibaldcrane]

We're talking like...necessarily a state-wide ban on internal combustion engines eventually.

The future may be lit, let's go.

[Zetanio]

I actually don't think a ban will work. I think you have to shift to cutting production of gas-powered vehicles via capped allowed sales and then adding a progressive tax on older gas-powered vehicles.

[Mythe_Seraph]

Noice, my AZ real estate is looking even more promising. Keep it up CA!

[archibaldcrane]

I actually don't think a ban will work. I think you have to shift to cutting production of gas-powered vehicles via capped allowed sales and then adding a progressive tax on older gas-powered vehicles.

You won't be able to get to net-zero carbon without a ban. It's going to have to take place by 2045. Not just on vehicles, long haul trucks, etc - but boat engines, lawnmowers, weed whackers, etc. etc. etc.

No idea how aviation emissions will be dealt with though - commercial electric aircraft isn't a thing, the only real way to do it is with liquid hydrogen (synthesized via electrolysis from 0-carbon electricity, not cracking natural gas) and powering aircraft that way, but there's no way all airplanes flying into California airports will be thusly equipped.

[zoobernut]

I would totally buy a full electric vehicles if I could get a pickup truck and a CR-V sized vehicle for under $25k each.

Also I don't see that working due to industrial vehicles. Have they even begun working on an electric full size excavator yet? What about loader or back hoe? Not to mention all the farming equipment like combines.

I don't mind electric lawnmowers and weed wackers but I have yet to see a decent electric chainsaw.

[archibaldcrane]

I would totally buy a full electric vehicles if I could get a pickup truck and a CR-V sized vehicle for under $25k each.

Also I don't see that working due to industrial vehicles. Have they even begun working on an electric full size excavator yet? What about loader or back hoe? Not to mention all the farming equipment like combines.

I don't mind electric lawnmowers and weed wackers but I have yet to see a decent electric chainsaw.

As far as your CR-V goes, this is almost as large and almost 25k after federal rebate:

https://www.mitsubishicars.com/outlander-phev/2018

(only 33 miles all-electric range though - it's a plugin hybrid - but still we're getting close)

For industrial vehicles, remember that the huge mining equipment (power shovels, etc.) have been powered by electricity mostly for years now (so just...make it 0-C electricity). But that's supplied via generation and cabling that isn't on-board - not by batteries. Not sure if machinery on, say, a construction site could implement a smaller version of the same.

[Zetanio]

I feel like pickup trucks should be on the way very soon. The instant 100% torque of electric motors will be a nice fit.

I don't think airplanes can be covered this way. They are not assembled in CA nor sold in CA, aside from maybe a private jet sale. They just transit.

For large-scale industrial applications. I could see those being solvable within the next 15-20 years easily. We're going to get to the battery/energy storage breakpoint needed and after that it's a downhill slope to adoption imo.

Trucking is already moving towards both electric and unmanned versions.

[archibaldcrane]

Musk keeps talking about making a Tesla pickup, if things keep progressing I'd expect one in the next 5-6 years tbh. Probably be competing in the $70k pickup market though, not the 30k one.

[Zetanio]

I think the salient point that comes out of this is that California is fucking moving in the right direction. I will use my most hated millennial term and say it's going to disrupt the status quo big time. CA is the largest market in the US for nearly everything.

[kuronosan]

Musk keeps talking about making a Tesla pickup, if things keep progressing I'd expect one in the next 5-6 years tbh. Probably be competing in the $70k pickup market though, not the 30k one.

Good, more people buying pickups because they need them and not because they think they look cool.

[archibaldcrane]

My only problem with pickups is that they have horrible fuel economy. Make them electric and I couldn't give a shit if someone just used it as a commuter vehicle.

[kuronosan]

Yep.

[Roranora]

gotta remember part of the douchebag truck owner experience is the at-will ability to belch fully opaque levels of carbon into the sky when needlessly tach'ing it out around town; looking like a commuter bus in Addis Ababa is not an option with EV pickups

[archibaldcrane]

gotta remember part of the douchebag truck owner experience is the at-will ability to belch fully opaque levels of carbon into the sky when needlessly tach'ing it out around town

this is why it will whip ass when ICEs are bant

[zoobernut]

gotta remember part of the douchebag truck owner experience is the at-will ability to belch fully opaque levels of carbon into the sky when needlessly tach'ing it out around town; looking like a commuter bus in Addis Ababa is not an option with EV pickups

Those fuck tards are definitely in the douchebag truck owner category but that isn't all truck owners. Those guys probably never take their trucks anywhere and don't use them as work trucks. I have livestock and live on a dirt road and I actually use 4wd multiple times a week and rely on the clearance. I also regularly pick up large quantities of hay or transport goats with my truck.

That being said I also don't enjoy the pollution aspect of my truck and would LOVE if it was electric. In fact I fantasized about how I could convert my truck to EV somehow. It would have to get 350 miles minimum on a charge though and have rapid charge capabilities to be worthwhile. Also since I am not super rich it would have to fall into that $25k or below range for a lease back or used one to be affordable for me.

The instant torque is a huge draw as is the possibility of having a situation where there is more clearance. I could imagine an awesome situation where there is no axles or differentials and just 4 motors one for each wheel with the connections going straight up instead of across so the clearance could go way above the center line of the tires. That would be the coolest thing ever! (Or if you still need the axel then something similar to the old original hummers made for the military).

[zoobernut]

As far as your CR-V goes, this is almost as large and almost 25k after federal rebate:

https://www.mitsubishicars.com/outlander-phev/2018

(only 33 miles all-electric range though - it's a plugin hybrid - but still we're getting close)

For industrial vehicles, remember that the huge mining equipment (power shovels, etc.) have been powered by electricity mostly for years now (so just...make it 0-C electricity). But that's supplied via generation and cabling that isn't on-board - not by batteries. Not sure if machinery on, say, a construction site could implement a smaller version of the same.

Thanks I will check that vehicle out. Though if you don't mind me asking how the heck do you get it down that low? It is almost $36k starting price and I don't see anywhere near $10k worth of rebates and discounts.

What is your opinion on getting a lease back or used one of these to help further with the price? We are in the market for a new vehicle right now actually. Need something bigger than the Focus but it is hard to get close to the fuel efficiency of a manual focus that also easily fits two car seats and two adults.

[Roranora]

yeah, of course not all truck owners/workers are peak d-bag - I use a truck for work almost daily - but I simply quite dislike that particular kind. I also experienced it again on today's drive home. he had the 2 smoker exhausts in the bed, a hillary for prison sticker, an info wars sticker, large, offset tires, and an estimated 8 MPG. the tow hitch did not have a scrotum, so it wasn't quite maxed merit points, but it was close

[archibaldcrane]

Thanks I will check that vehicle out. Though if you don't mind me asking how the heck do you get it down that low? It is almost $36k starting price and I don't see anywhere near $10k worth of rebates and discounts.

What is your opinion on getting a lease back or used one of these to help further with the price? We are in the market for a new vehicle right now actually. Need something bigger than the Focus but it is hard to get close to the fuel efficiency of a manual focus that also easily fits two car seats and two adults.

Checked truecar.com to see what people are paying for them, looked like around 31k for a base model (this is in the Los Angeles area). Then you'll get, I think $5800 in a federal tax credit (based on the size of the battery - not quite big enough in that one for the full $7500) - so that gets you down to 26k or whatever all told. You still have to pay the 31k plus taxes, but you'll pay $5800 less in federal taxes in the year of purchase thanks to the credit. Have to make sure you have at least that much tax liability though to take advantage.


Doubt you'll find a used one, they're new for 2018, first model year. I assume there are lease offers too, but I don't really do leases (although they aren't a bad idea for PHEV/EVs because of how quickly the technology evolves. The dealer will capture the tax credit, which will lower the cost of the lease to you). As long as you have a dedicated place to park and can install a charger (or just a standard 110v plug for a PHEV like this - don't really need a 220v) you're good to go.

[Byrthnoth]

I live in a DC adjacent apartment building.

Our parking garage is about 30% truck.

Y tho?


The truck is gen X's mustang

[Zetanio]

Trucks have always been that popular. The F-150 has been the most popular vehicle in the US for quite awhile.

Taken from Wikipedia, cited there.

The Ford F-Series has been the best-selling vehicle in the United States since 1986 and the best-selling pickup since 1977.