115th United States Congress

[Zealot]

I was calling Lieberman a piece of shit back in 2000, time has proven me right repeatedly.

[Kachiko]

Maybe this belongs in the silly shit thread, but it's more relevant here. Just in case anyone needed more reason to hate Jason Chaffetz:

So, you would add the below as a reason to hate as well?

[archibaldcrane]

except for the whole 600 billion from gutting medicaid thing and trying to convince people that medicaid doesn't work or some stupid shit

That's what happens if you tweak parts of the ACA but not others lol. It's a swiss watch compared to what they're trying to replace it with.

[Zealot]

The content of the Obama video doesn't exactly line up with the headline attached to it.

[archibaldcrane]

The content of the Obama video doesn't exactly line up with the headline attached to it.

It kinda does though.

The problem here is Obama's trying to make the best health care plan he can get through congress, while Republicans are trying to cut the most taxes on the wealthy. Telling people to spend less on phone bills is more sympathetic with the former purpose than the latter.

[Deftscythe]

So, you would add the below as a reason to hate as well?

I mean sure, if you don't understand what either healthcare proposal entails, and plenty of people did hate him for being "elitist."

Man, I sure love equivalency. Nothing makes political discourse more productive and honest.

[Xajii]

Lol, love the Obama video. You're not wrong, but I think the details here matter.

1. Obama at least references cutting some monthly expenses that would actually add up over time (cable bill, etc.) as opposed to a single purchase of a portable computer that can literally run your life and even homeless people have / should have / need them

2. The costs of these insurance plans at the time Obama made that statement made this analogy make a bit more sense, of course it didnt' stay that way but it still kinda matters

[tyven]

that dude was overstating his insurance costs by at least a third. unless his fucking poverty strickin family was too good for a bronze plan

That being said. Barry doesn't know how dude is living and 36k income for a family of 4 is fucking nothing and telling that family to cut costs is a seriously dick move. Barack should have just blamed it on Lieberman

[Zealot]

Kinda but not exactly. He was talking about why health care is so important to prioritize and brought up the subsidies available, Chaffetz came across more like "if you can't pay for it, it's because you're an irresponsible spender."

Obama was selling the individual mandate, Chaffetz was telling poor people that this plan is why they can't have nice things.

Obama being infinitely more likeable may also play a role in how they come across.

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[archibaldcrane]

that dude was overstating his insurance costs by at least a third.

At that income with a family of 3 he'd get nearly a complete subsidy under the ACA lol. Someone not wanting to pay the tiny difference for their kid should honestly be told to check their priorities.

[Salodin]

Wtf does repeal and repair even mean? Are those not mutually exclusive in this context...

[Day]

repeal and try to repair the party as you argue over the plan

[archibaldcrane]

Wtf does repeal and repair even mean? Are those not mutually exclusive in this context...

It's Frank Luntz, he cares about how words make you feel, not what they mean.

[tyven]

It's Frank Luntz, he cares about how words make you feel, not what they mean.

we will get our house in order

[Cail]

I was calling Lieberman a piece of shit back in 2000, time has proven me right repeatedly.

from my state awwwww yeaaaaa

[Aerin]

What I don't understand is that, if the insurance companies are currently able to sell insurance across state lines under the ACA, what are these conservative groups asking for when they say:

The problems with this bill are not just what’s in it, but also what’s missing: namely, the critical free-market solution of selling health insurance across state lines,” Club for Growth President David McIntosh said in a statement. “Such an injection of competition would lead to hundreds of billions of dollars in savings, nullifying any argument by Congressional Republicans that this provision cannot be included in the current bill.

http://www.thehill.com/policy/health...ealthcare-plan

[Andalusian girls]

Wasn't Obama's mistake trying to get Republicans' input on the process? This feels like they opposite of that, they don't care about Dem input, they aren't consulting major stakeholders in the insurance and medical industries, etc.

I suppose if you mean that Obama's mistake wasn't consolidating all 60 Senate votes behind the public option before presenting the bill, there's a corollary here for sure.

i was actually speaking strategically rather than tactically. healthcare is the most toxic of legislative agendas, as Obama and Bill and Hillary have previously found out, and though the only hope for Republicans to ram their reform through is by way of reconciliation (and so must be done before the new budget is passed), i believe they would have been better served by punting repeal and whatever farther down the line. there is something approaching broad consensus for the infrastructure package which has the kind of MAGA PR that would serve them well for years, there is nothing like consensus for their tax reform plans but that would not produce so destructive and divisive a public colloquy and in practice would have a far greater impact upon the nation.

i know it was a campaign promise and without reconciliation they would have to (gasp) compromise with Democrats but i think it a tremendous misstep. it is going to suck the oxygen out of all other legislative proposals for months, it is already fracturing a fragile Republican unity, and it could well end in embarrassment and failure, as it did for Clinton. even a victorious Obama was grievously damaged by the process which brought success.

What I don't understand is that, if the insurance companies are currently able to sell insurance across state lines under the ACA, what are these conservative groups asking for when they say:



http://www.thehill.com/policy/health...ealthcare-plan

i've touched before on the parochial, corporatist bloc of self-interest that needs be blown up as states are still allowed to deny the sale of an insurance product from another state, and 45 presently do this. the federal government is not the impediment to cross-state sales, state legislators protecting local health insurance monopolies are, and the formation of a true national market can only come from federal legislation. somewhat amusingly the Republican ideals of states's rights and free markets are in direct conflict.

[Headspace]

i was actually speaking strategically rather than tactically. healthcare is the most toxic of legislative agendas, as Obama and Bill and Hillary have previously found out, and though the only hope for Republicans to ram their reform through is by way of reconciliation (and so must be done before the new budget is passed), i believe they would have been better served by punting repeal and whatever farther down the line. there is something approaching broad consensus for the infrastructure package which has the kind of MAGA PR that would serve them well for years, there is nothing like consensus for their tax reform plans but that would not produce so destructive and divisive a public colloquy and in practice would have a far greater impact upon the nation.

i know it was a campaign promise and without reconciliation they would have to (gasp) compromise with Democrats but i think it a tremendous misstep. it is going to suck the oxygen out of all other legislative proposals for months, it is already fracturing a fragile Republican unity, and it could well end in embarrassment and failure, as it did for Clinton. even a victorious Obama was grievously damaged by the process which brought success.



i've touched before on the parochial, corporatist bloc of self-interest that needs be blown up as states are still allowed to deny the sale of an insurance product from another state, and 45 presently do this. the federal government is not the impediment to cross-state sales, state legislators protecting local health insurance monopolies are, and the formation of a true national market can only come from federal legislation. somewhat amusingly the Republican ideals of states's rights and free markets are in direct conflict.

Also if they were allowed to sell across state lines unilaterally, you would see a race to the bottom for states to impose to least amount of regulations to attract insurers to base in their state ala credit card companies

[Aerin]

Ah, right. I do remember you bringing that up before now. How bad do you think the PR would be if the Republicans tried to advocate for a national system? I'd imagine it would get branded as another form of government takeover of healthcare.

[Zealot]

Is there any data on how many parent companies own different insurance companies in different states?