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  1. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by haroldsaxon View Post
    I never said the playstyle was completely different and I do hope in 4.0 they try and take each class further in different directions, but to say they're clones of each other is wrong imo.
    i meant to say that the process of gearing SMN and BLM is virtually the same. Playstyle wise they are completely different. They do have different stat weight and BiS, but this is never really something that the average gamer concerns himself with, which is my point really. I'm somewhat midcore (I don't raid, but I do everything else up to EX primals) and I honestly don't even know what the stat weights for my jobs are (and my point is I feel like I should). Practically, it doesn't matter tho, because the iLvl system is in place, and so far I've never had any real issue coping with content.

    Truth is, nobody is going to forego a higher iLvl slot piece for a lower one with "better stat weight" (if they even knew what it was), especially not when the game itself distills your role potential into a numeric stat (i.e. iLvl) and locks you out of content based on this number. Using a bit of an extreme scenario here, but if you were on the border ilvl for a particular content, that is the only thing which determines whether I'm "good" enough to qualify for certain content or not regardless of stats and their weights.. which suggests that as long as the iLvl is higher, I'm safe.

    Now, if we had multiple items at the same iLvl (which rarely ever happens), maybe i'd make a case for the importance of stat weight.. but its otherwise not something i've ever paid attention to, other than that 1 time I was figuring out what to meld into my new weapon. I can't be the only one.

  2. #382
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    I can see taking a 260 piece with CRT/DET over a 270 with PIE/SPS, or maybe ACC/SKS.

  3. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spira View Post
    i meant to say that the process of gearing SMN and BLM is virtually the same. Playstyle wise they are completely different. They do have different stat weight and BiS, but this is never really something that the average gamer concerns himself with, which is my point really. I'm somewhat midcore (I don't raid, but I do everything else up to EX primals) and I honestly don't even know what the stat weights for my jobs are (and my point is I feel like I should). Practically, it doesn't matter tho, because the iLvl system is in place, and so far I've never had any real issue coping with content.

    .
    There's a whole lot of wat here tbh. You were pretty clear that they were exactly the same in your opinion, but ok.

    Just because the "average gamer" doesn't care about stats, doesn't mean they are insignificant. All you need to do is google "what is the best stat for x class". Or even search Reddit. The OF. It doesn't take long.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spira View Post
    Truth is, nobody is going to forego a higher iLvl slot piece for a lower one with "better stat weight" (if they even knew what it was), especially not when the game itself distills your role potential into a numeric stat (i.e. iLvl) and locks you out of content based on this number. Using a bit of an extreme scenario here, but if you were on the border ilvl for a particular content, that is the only thing which determines whether I'm "good" enough to qualify for certain content or not regardless of stats and their weights.. which suggests that as long as the iLvl is higher, I'm safe.

    Now, if we had multiple items at the same iLvl (which rarely ever happens), maybe i'd make a case for the importance of stat weight.. but its otherwise not something I've ever paid attention to, other than that 1 time I was figuring out what to meld into my new weapon. I can't be the only one.
    That's actually incorrect. Some crafted pieces were BiS for some classes (e.g. Neck on BLM) before this patch. The i260 ring was BiS for BLM. There's some cases where the 260 items are bis for some classes. Sure, it doesn't matter for anything below current patch cycle as you want to get ilevel to be able to join expert/dun scaithe/raids, but that's hardly midcore. And you can always use the higher i-level item to join DF, then switch when you get in.

    Oh, and we do have multiple items at the same ilevel - we have two sets at i270 (three for jewellery), 24 man at i260 , then a crafted set below that.

    But yeah, just because you've not paid attention to it doesn't mean its meaningless.

  4. #384
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    I dunno. Most of the playerbase doesn't know or care about stat weights, and as long as they have current ilvl gear and play well enough, they can clear the content. SE has apparently even nudged the savage raid into this category difficulty-wise, if what I see about randos clearing through DF is true. So if you look at it from a purely functional perspective, stats are pretty meaningless in this game. The only people they're going to matter to are the people who are interested in squeezing out those last few bits of function out of their gear. Really, it's set up this way so the average player doesn't have to worry or care about what stats are on their gear and just spend their time chasing the current ilvl every week.

  5. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by haroldsaxon View Post
    There's a whole lot of wat here tbh. You were pretty clear that they were exactly the same in your opinion, but ok.
    srsly. its not my fault your reading comprehension sucks. I'm only gonna reiterate myself once.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spira View Post
    Gearing is absolutely mindless - the fact that I can wear the same gear on all my healers and play effectively, or between BLM and SMN because they work the same way.. it speaks volumes about how pointless gearing is apart from chasing ilvls.
    ...


    Quote Originally Posted by haroldsaxon View Post
    Just because the "average gamer" doesn't care about stats, doesn't mean they are insignificant.
    ...
    But yeah, just because you've not paid attention to it doesn't mean its meaningless.
    Thats pretty cool. I don't even need to pay attention and I'm still doing well. Good thing I didn't bother in the first place.

  6. #386
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    Can we please take a step back and realize that the MNK iron works gear headpiece has the split visor option that when equipped on SAM will make Metal Gear Rising glamour possible?

    Jack's back baby.

  7. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eleven19 View Post
    Can we please take a step back and realize that the MNK iron works gear headpiece has the split visor option that when equipped on SAM will make Metal Gear Rising glamour possible?

    Jack's back baby.

  8. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spira View Post
    srsly. its not my fault your reading comprehension sucks. I'm only gonna reiterate myself once.
    You're right, my reading comprehension does suck - I was too hung up on the sentence beforehand. Sorry.




    Quote Originally Posted by Spira View Post
    Thats pretty cool. I don't even need to pay attention and I'm still doing well. Good thing I didn't bother in the first place.
    Just because you didn't feel the need to pay attention doesn't mean its meaningless though. Just because you can take a Paladin into raid content and clear stuff with it, doesn't mean that its as good as WAR/DRK. And to use the example of BLM, I sure as hell wouldn't want to run no spellspeed in pretty much any raid content - after levelling my alt and gearing that up, its horrific.

  9. #389

    He already mentioned that he doesn't raid, so I can see why he thinks that.

    I disagree though, otherwise you wouldn't hear about tanks complaining about all the parry stats.

  10. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eleven19 View Post
    Can we please take a step back and realize that the MNK iron works gear headpiece has the split visor option that when equipped on SAM will make Metal Gear Rising glamour possible?

    Jack's back baby.
    Done!

  11. #391
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    like i did mention, i don't raid.. so my perspective would definitely be much different than someone who does.. and I can reasonably foresee that gearing and stat weight is a much bigger consideration for players in much more stressful high tier situations. However, the fact remains that non-raid players don't have to care about such matters. They could, but they don't have to. And this is but one of the many ways in which the game itself creates a divide between the skill level of casual and hardcore players - something they would prefer to close rather that widen.

    I'd say knowing how to gear / stat weight is a player skill. And quite honestly I think it should be something every person who plays a job should know. I don't want to have to compare this to FFXI, but in that game for example, you would be expected to know how to gear your job whether youre casual or raid or whatevers left of HNM, or even if you're not at the relevant level cap. In that game, not knowing or gearing wrongly meant you sucked. There were reasons to gear properly. There was feedback (people would probably tell you or something). There were real consequences for being bad not just for raiders but across the board. I'm not saying FFXIV has to be like this, but the way partying, gearing and the stat system is set up doesnt motivate non-raiders to be better players. Rather just better collectors of the newest shiny things.

    what i'm trying to say is. if stats matter, they should matter for everyone. casuals, midcores, raiders. casuals should need to know stat weights, and be given real opportunities to apply their knowledge. maybe even more materia slots or class specific materia would be a step in that direction. If gearing is part of the cause of the casual/hardcore divide (and i think it is), i'd rather they make casual play more "difficult" by needing to pay attention to things like this than have them dumb everything else down even more. and I think more job/play differentiation or options is 1 way of achieving this.

  12. #392
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    The fact that people can willingly and knowingly make dumb decisions about stats and skill usage and still "do well" in the game has more to do how easy content is and how little the game rewards optimization and good play, rather than how much of a difference said things make. Fights are tuned around the absolute worst players, there are no real costs of entry or failure, you get static rewards regardless of kill speed, everything is actively eased up/nerfed over time, the game pushes you towards max ilevel regardless of what content you do, and the DF automatically finds groups for everyone - there's just very little reason to try beyond the bare minimum.

    I don't think simply making the stat/gear system more impactful or interesting would change much - it'd help, but it wouldn't be anywhere near enough, and I think it'd mainly widen the gap between the minority that tries and the majority that doesn't, because there are many other underlying reasons why people aren't motivated to try. To use the example that was brought up: if they doubled the number of materia slots most players would just run around with twice as many empty slots.

    I wouldn't even say it's a raider vs non-raider thing, it's really about content and the game's overall design. Looking at just the raiding/endgame community: while very few people got through Gordias making dumb gear and gameplay choices, have no doubt many people are raiding "fine" in Creator with empty materia slots, no food/pots and probably spamming 1-2-3. To use other examples, players could've still cleared Salvage in XI or dungeons in 1.0 with bad setups and minimal gear/job swaps, they'd just get a fraction of the rewards so there was real motivation to do better.

  13. #393
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    SE got this one out quick


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