Dragonball Z/Super (2015) TOP and Beyond

**Dantrag** · 2017-02-25 20:38

Spoiler: show

**Lucavi** · 2017-02-25 21:05

They absolutely should at this point, since they need the absolute strongest. I'm pretty sure Cell would rather fight for his right to exist (even if its in Hell - perhaps a deal can be made?) than be completely erased from existence.

Actually... Cell would make for a pretty sick God of Destruction.

**The Stig** · 2017-02-25 21:20

Good thing they fixed the Choreography for this arc to be more in line with the old school fights that I expected since the beginning. Everything up til now has been rather lackluster except a few moments which were too good to last.

Loving the Kaioshin and Beerus interactions.

edit:

oh about the little weird bombshell, I think this is what happened in the studio as they were planning things out:

Akira: Guys guys, we need to make to make 101* fighters!
Designers: WE DON'T HAVE TIME!!!
Akira: Ok change the plot a little!

*-1 for the hooded dudes, -3 hot the wolf bros, and -5 for champa's guys (i'm probably forgetting 1 or 2)

**Ratatapa** · 2017-02-25 22:22

Kinda liked the gohan fight. And U9 Kai sucks balls fuck he's annoying

**Vaspinne** · 2017-02-26 02:11

Fight was actually pretty good. Better then that lame ass Saiya-man filler episode.

Originally Posted by Virg

Spoiler: show

**Obsidian** · 2017-02-26 03:13

Mystic is supposed to be stronger than SSJ2. It's why he never used SSJ2 against Super Buu or whatever the fuck that form was called.

**Seha** · 2017-02-26 06:06

That was an interesting episode. Do we know already which GoD/Kai correspond to the numbers mentioned, or was it not revealed yet?

edit: nvm just saw the video on the previous page, I guess we already know!

**Shenrien** · 2017-02-26 08:19

I thought the lore behind it was once mystic was unlocked it locked him from tapping into SSJ because it brought his potential out for his base to use and was always in the state of mystic. Is there ever a power up sequence in combat that occurs to indicate he is tapping into his mystic form? The only time I think we see any kind of power up is once he stands up for the first time with elder kai and displays his new level of strength.

This was what I always gone off of and with him now going SSJ whenever he wants just leaves me to believe Toriyama doesn't remember what took place in DBZ and is just doing whatever.

**Elcura** · 2017-02-26 08:34

Originally Posted by Shenrien

and is just doing whatever.

Duh

This has been pretty much the case since Golden Freeza...cuz you know, we needed Golden Freeza.

**Eurell** · 2017-02-26 08:44

Been going on longer than that lol. Goten and Trunks were born without tails because he straight up forgot that was a thing.

But the answer about Gohan's power is pretty clear. Obviously Mystic form only lasts an hour because Gohan isn't a god.

**Xno Kappa** · 2017-02-26 08:57

Yup. Toriyama flat out said he forgot about tails when he designed Goten and Trunks lmao.

**kuronosan** · 2017-02-26 09:21

Originally Posted by Obsidian

Mystic is supposed to be stronger than SSJ2. It's why he never used SSJ2 against Super Buu or whatever the fuck that form was called.

Chou form is way above 3.

**Dantrag** · 2017-02-26 18:06

Yeah Mystic is way over 3. Also this is a good video to just get the snippet of the tournament and the current ranking system.

So 1, 5, 8 and 12 will not be in the tourny as their average is above 7.

U7 is average 3.18.
U9 is average 1.86.

U7 is almost 2x as strong "on average" as 9. And 1, 5, 8 and 12 are all well over 2x U7. But then again, this is all averages, doesn't mean that they're more powerful than the Z fighters.

Again, the U7 team has too many gaps for this kind of thing. Cell and Freeza really should have been a part of this. I think it would have actually been extremely interesting for them to have joined the team. The only one that I could see possibly keeping up is Tien(san Krillin recent power boost which we don't know what that means at all).

**Cream Soda** · 2017-02-26 18:29

Originally Posted by Obsidian

Mystic is supposed to be stronger than SSJ2. It's why he never used SSJ2 against Super Buu or whatever the fuck that form was called.

"Mystic" isn't even a form. It was just having his hidden potential drawn out. Since he was at the peak of his current potential, there was no reason to turn ssj. It's not that ssj is weaker or if he transformed, he'd be less strong. He'd just use the energy for the transformation while not getting any additional benefit, as he was already at his peak power. (aka having no reason to transform)

**Tymon** · 2017-02-26 18:30

Having Cell involved would have been super interesting. I wonder if he would have been actually personable given the opportunity to fight lots of strong opponents. It's what he wanted to do after all.

**Dantrag** · 2017-02-26 18:48

Originally Posted by Tymon

Having Cell involved would have been super interesting. I wonder if he would have been actually personable given the opportunity to fight lots of strong opponents. It's what he wanted to do after all.

Well he had blood or what? 2 full saiyans and 1 1/2 saiyan? Cell going "golden" cell would have been a bit facepalm though lol. There has to be others that are stronger than Yoshi and Krillin though, sheesh.

**Greatguardian** · 2017-02-26 19:09

I'm not buying this idea that the Universe Mortal Rankings have anything to do with combat power. Future Zen-Ou didn't even know what a martial arts tournament was. Given the way Beerus laid into Kaioshin about his hands-off divinity it seemed like they were talking more about average development level of civilizations. As in, technology and culture. Kaioshin seems to be hesitant to interfere and generally content to let individual civilizations develop on their own. The implication seems to be that other Supreme Kais take a more active role guiding and helping sentient civilizations in their universes develop and move forward.

At the end of the day this isn't terribly surprising since it's my understanding that Kaioshin only got "promoted" because the other Supreme Kais of Universe 7 (West, South, North, and Grand SK) were all killed or absorbed by Majin Buu. His training was incomplete, he was overwhelmed by the responsibility suddenly thrust upon him, and he's been left extremely insecure about his ability to "God correctly."

This also makes their exemption from the tournament make a lot more sense. Universes 1, 5, 8, and 12 have the highest average development in culture, art, technology, etc. They're the civilizations "worth keeping." The other universes are less successful on average, and they were all due to be erased anyways. Allowing the winning universe of the Tournament of Power to survive is just a convenient way to make the tournament more interesting. Not because having strong fighters makes a universe better or more worth saving, but because it's amusing for Zen-Ou.

**Aoshi** · 2017-02-26 19:10

Originally Posted by Dantrag

Cell going "golden" cell would have been a bit facepalm though lol

Not like they'd need to, I mean Cell kinda cheats the whole system anyway doesn't he? iirc "Super Perfect Cell" was pretty much SSJ2 at least given his aura:

http://pa1.narvii.com/6140/6014c5517...5364343_hq.gif

I imagine his Saiyan cells would open him up to all sorts of god level shenanigans had they wanted to go down that route, hell it certainly would have been interesting to see.

**Cream Soda** · 2017-02-26 19:33

Cell probably has the greatest potential in the series tbh.

While Frieza didn't ever train, Cell never did, either. He was able to get enough energy to function by absorbing humans. Then powered up with absorbing androids and zenkai.

If he actually got a chance/time to train, he could easily surpass Golden Frieza, and probably Goku/Vegeta as well.

**Eurell** · 2017-02-26 20:17

Originally Posted by Cream Soda

"Mystic" isn't even a form. It was just having his hidden potential drawn out. Since he was at the peak of his current potential, there was no reason to turn ssj. It's not that ssj is weaker or if he transformed, he'd be less strong. He'd just use the energy for the transformation while not getting any additional benefit, as he was already at his peak power. (aka having no reason to transform)

I thought it was more like it just completely maxed out his base form. Didn't Goku say something about him being able to get even stronger if he trained and went SSJ as mystic?

Meh, not like theres a real official explanation of it, or that that would even matter at this point lol.

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