Foreign Politics or: how i learned to stop worrying and love the parliamentary democracy

[Salodin]

It's not tho. The main point is it contains nutrients and beneficial proteins for an infant, benefits that are equal or greater than what you get from formula (as linked above); the strength of that benefit depending largely on your infants maturity at birth. Also, how are you gonna talk about time valuation and not bring up formula prep as compared to slinging a tit out and being ready to go lol. Formula is a pain in the ass to mix, bottles to clean (properly), and there are other problems from bottle feeding that are less pronounced than just sucking off a natural nipple. Don't babies also get less gas from natural milk over bottle feeding as well?

I'm not understanding your point as I don't think I've ever seen a health professional recommend not going natural breast feeding or not recommending colostrum over formula assuming there are no health risks from the mother (disease that's transferred in milk for instance).

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[archibaldcrane]

I'm not understanding your point

The amount of (female-only, of course) effort required to produce these gains, vs. the amount of hype surrounding the supposed health benefits of breastfeeding, is frankly ridiculous. The stress, shame, inconvenience, pressure, etc is completely out of whack with the reality of this issue.

.

[Day]

salodin you can't go around microaggressing the trans/small boobie community like this

[Salodin]

Oh, so you don't refute the claim that colostrum in general is better than formula; you just don't like the societal pressure many women go through when they have difficulty with breastfeeding.

So colostrum does give an infant a health boost. It's just not worth starving your child for fear that they won't be nourished properly off formula (which happens), and it's not worth stressing the mother into other health issues because she's distraught that she can't mother her child the way a lot of over bearing but well meaning people pressure them into doing (which also happens). Which is all basically what I've said this entire time lol.

While were on the topic; I get the feeling you're aware of this but many on bg probably are not. There is huge pressure from the holistic crowd and mommy-pseudo-scientists that think you're practically evil if you elect to go the formula route over breastmilk. They'll swear up and down that you're screwing your child over if you don't breast feed, opening them up to problems later in life, etc. None of it holds up scrutiny of course, and its quite tragic to see a woman become distraught over feeding her baby when really it should be a wonderful bonding experience between mother and child.

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[Salodin]

salodin you can't go around microaggressing the trans/small boobie community like this

I'm confident this is exactly how some people are taking this lmfao

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[kuronosan]

Oh, so you don't refute the claim that colostrum in general is better than formula; you just don't like the societal pressure many women go through when they have difficulty with breastfeeding.

So colostrum does give an infant a health boost. It's just not worth starving your child for fear that they won't be nourished properly off formula (which happens), and it's not worth stressing the mother into other health issues because she's distraught that she can't mother her child the way a lot of over bearing but well meaning people pressure them into doing (which also happens). Which is all basically what I've said this entire time lol.

While were on the topic; I get the feeling you're aware of this but many on bg probably are not. There is huge pressure from the holistic crowd and mommy-pseudo-scientists that think you're practically evil if you elect to go the formula route over breastmilk. They'll swear up and down that you're screwing your child over if you don't breast feed, opening them up to problems later in life, etc. None of it holds up scrutiny of course, and its quite tragic to see a woman become distraught over feeding her baby when really it should be a wonderful bonding experience between mother and child.

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The problem is colostrum is only made within the first 24-48 hours post-partum (it's also nutrient rich because it's designed to give your baby that first boost). Many women make milk immediately afterwards. Even then, if they can't that's why they give formula.

Formula is orchestrated on purpose to deliver those same nutrients, in the same concentrations, calculated very carefully to an infant's needs.

As a provider, and having seen many babies in the NICU, I think if you CANNOT breastfeed and ignore taking formula despite it being the only option then you're an extremely negligent parent.

[Salodin]

I don't disagree.

I've no kids yet, but I do have a friend who was personally devastated that she couldn't produce enough breastmilk to feed her first born. She got over it, then got into shaming people who shame mothers who dont/can't breastfed. I'm sure there are people on BG with stories related to this they could share.

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[archibaldcrane]

As a provider, and having seen many babies in the NICU, I think if you CANNOT breastfeed and ignore taking formula despite it being the only option then you're an extremely negligent parent.

I strongly agree that literally letting babies starve to death is bad

...wat

[archibaldcrane]

I don't disagree.

I've no kids yet, but I do have a friend who was personally devastated that she couldn't produce enough breastmilk to feed her first born.

She probably heard a lot from people evangelizing about the incredible health benefits from colostrum and felt guilty she couldn't give such a wonderful health boost to her precious baby


(this is what I'm talking about btw - the health benefits are minuscule according to the best research out there, but the downstream effect of people overselling said benefits is clearly worse for the mother-baby universe)

[Niiro]

I strongly agree that literally letting babies starve to death is bad

...wat

Yea but if you feed a baby it's only going to get bigger and need to feed even more.

Sounds like some kinda pyramid scheme to me.

[Salodin]

She probably heard a lot from people evangelizing about the incredible health benefits from colostrum and felt guilty she couldn't give such a wonderful health boost to her precious baby


(this is what I'm talking about btw - the health benefits are minuscule according to the best research out there, but the downstream effect of people overselling said benefits is clearly worse for the mother-baby universe)

Sure, if you're in the market for exaggerating claims then it's a problem. But if everyone keeps a level, reasonable, educated head on their shoulders then it's not scandalous to say colostrum is the first choice for a newborn infant, but it is not necessary to forgo meals in exchange for trying to make a titty work that just isn't producing what it was designed to leak out. I get what you're saying though.

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[kuronosan]

I strongly agree that literally letting babies starve to death is bad

...wat

Are you agreeing with me or being sarcastic, because I'm a huge advocate for formula.

[archibaldcrane]

how

nevermind

[Salodin]

Maybe it's a generational thing that I don't get. To me, saying you're a proponent of formula is like saying you support keeping babies well fed, which is kind of like "duh". Not all boobs can produce milk, and if they do then not all boobs produce enough milk. If that's you, and you don't use formula, then your child is going hungry.

Unless people give their infants straight cows milk. Maybe that's a thing, but not in my family or upbringing. You got the tit, or you got formula. The cousins helping raise you hope you go the titty route so they don't gotta spend all that time prepping formula and bottles compared to just tossing you to the aunt and letting them feed the baby while you go off and play vidya.

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[Dotsudoku]

Are you agreeing with me or being sarcastic, because I'm a huge advocate for formula.

you told him that someone is a bad parent if they cannot breastfeed and don't use formula. Dunno what kind of response you were expecting from that

I think most of the population agrees that literally starving your child is a no no

[Byrthnoth]

Formula is a 95% solution (the amount we understand about what is important in breast milk) manufactured/delivered in the cheapest way possible (capitalism) and our shitty behavioral tests can't prove it is much worse than breast milk, but breast milk is the 100% solution.

Many women cannot breastfeed due to their jobs, stress, or just not producing milk. Many primate females lose their first child and it is totally normal, but that would be disastrous for human society so thank God for formula.

That said, if you have the time, willpower, and willing titties, why not use the 100% solution?

[archibaldcrane]

That said, if you have the time, willpower, and willing titties, why not use the 100% solution?

we really have to get at least one woman involved in this conversation at some point

[zoobernut]

Besides potential health benefits I recall my wife telling me about all sorts of other psychological benefits. I am not sure how the studies were done but I remember being told about strong correlations found between breast feeding and intelligence later in life as well as socioeconomic position amongst other things.

Not saying it is true or not just saying it isn't just about physical health.

[archibaldcrane]

Oversold and/or poorly designed studies.

The "breast is best" people are simply more vocal and passionate than the "actually they're both fine" people, and that means you get a lot of "everybody says" stuff on behalf of the breastpeople and not a lot of cold-light-of-day looking at quality research.

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[Byrthnoth]

Most bio studies are basically just pretentious psychology studies, particularly when anything behavioral comes into play. I 100% believe that we've never detected a difference between breast milk and fake breast milk in a replicable study, but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

However, breast milk defines the mix of nutrients that we aim for in formula.

I wouldn't say this comparison is like Rolex vs. Folex or something. It's more like Pyrex vs. Fyrex. They're both going to do the job and fiik if there is any real difference between them, but if you could have the genuine article and you want it, it is hard to argue that it is worse, only not worth it.