Hollywood: Sexual assault whack-a-mole

[Gredival]

You are correct, he was scummy for that. She could also have just...left.

I agree but her failing to do is not a failing equivalent to his, nor does it exculpate it. In other words, victim blaming.

That's the key point that gets missed in this Atlantic article. The author tried to portray it that way by relating it to "Cat Person." And *to a point* the comparison was appropriate, especially when you consider the dynamic of her possibly being star-struck and him egotistically, but not maliciously, assuming that she definitely would be into him since he's a celebrity. You could frame the way the date went and a small early portion of what happened after they returned to his apartment as mere dis-satisfactory but consensual encounter between two people on different pages. (The original account at Babe makes a good point that Anzari should clearly have picked up on her non-verbal signals given how this is a subject of his comedy and that he would go on to write about it, however it IS possible for him to have simply missed it.)

However the comparison falls apart after she stops him at some point and requests that they stop. I think that effectively serves as notice that there is no longer effective consent. Everything after that is pretty black and white.

Had he stopped at that point, he comes out of this with a lot more respect from me. That he didn't crosses a line. Not equivalent to physical coercion, and I don't think he should be labeled a rapist (and it appears, even right after the incident that he was remorseful and under the impression he had gotten consent). But this was definitely more than a "Cat Person" situation where it's just "blameless" regret due to bad communication and whatnot.

[Heavencloud]

Why is the Aziz date news again? He cant support #metoo, because he tried to hook up with a girl?

What a horrible time to be a guy.

I blame Trump.

started well before trump
thanks obama

[Salodin]

I agree but her failing to do is not a failing equivalent to his, nor does it exculpate it. In other words, victim blaming.

That's the key point that gets missed in this Atlantic article. The author tried to portray it that way by relating it to "Cat Person." And *to a point* the comparison was appropriate, especially when you consider the dynamic of her possibly being star-struck and him egotistically, but not maliciously, assuming that she definitely would be into him since he's a celebrity. You could frame the way the date went and a small early portion of what happened after they returned to his apartment as mere dis-satisfactory but consensual encounter between two people on different pages. (The original account at Babe makes a good point that Anzari should clearly have picked up on her non-verbal signals given how this is a subject of his comedy and that he would go on to write about it, however it IS possible for him to have simply missed it.)

However the comparison falls apart after she stops him at some point and requests that they stop. I think that effectively serves as notice that there is no longer effective consent. Everything after that is pretty black and white.

Had he stopped at that point, he comes out of this with a lot more respect from me. That he didn't crosses a line. Not equivalent to physical coercion, and I don't think he should be labeled a rapist (and it appears, even right after the incident that he was remorseful and under the impression he had gotten consent). But this was definitely more than a "Cat Person" situation where it's just "blameless" regret due to bad communication and whatnot.

But it is her failing...shes a grown ass woman trying to get romantically involved with a person who -clearly- was interested only in her vagina. His actions made this clear. She absolutely has personal responsibility to just peace the fuck out if she so desires, and her staying and voluntarily engaging in sexual acts is all on her.

She could say no, but couldn't even follow through with that apparently because from what I've read she basically said "maybe next time". She could just leave. She didn't have to go inside his place after the date. What the fuck did she think was happening? No reasonable adult should have expected to chat up with a person for days or weeks, go on a date, then go back to the guys place late in the evening to play twister while family guy plays in the backround. She went there at the very least with the suspicion he was trying to get laid, or she's on the spectrum and thought he was gonna whip up some ice cream sundaes after the wining and dining the movie star played for her. Again, I refuse to excuse her poor judgement when anyone our age or older should know what was going down. Buyers remorse is no excuse. At some point the responsibility needs to be on a woman to see what is going down and just leave with a "I had a great evening, let's leave it here". Why is the onus on Aziz when he made clear, from the very beginning, what he wanted?

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[Gredival]

Why is the onus on Aziz when he made clear, from the very beginning, what he wanted?

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Because there was a point at which she made it clear she didn't want to continue, a message he processed enough to say "Hey look it's not fun if we're not both having fun, I get it, it's okay."

And had he stopped there, it wouldn't have been an issue. But instead he suggested they go to the couch and just chill... then as soon as she sits he turns her around and points her at his junk.

We can talk about the different things she could and should have done, but none of that changes what Anzari did. He should have stopped at that point and there's no post-facto justifications for not doing so nor can you just chalk it up to "She sent mixed signals, I was clear all I wanted was to get my dick wet."

It's like walking down a dark alley at night and getting mugged. Yes your made a poor choice. But that doesn't make it okay for the mugger to mug you.

[Koul]

Is what he did considered sexual assault? tbh I feel like that's just part of the dating/hookup game we're living in now. I've had similar situations happen to me and I don't consider it assault (for me). Now I know to be smarter and assert myself if things aren't going the way I want them to. I'm not excusing any of the behavior btw

the big thing that irks me is the part where she talks about body language cues or whatever. Not everyone picks up on that shit or they can read into it differently so I don't think it's a fair thing to say. In his texts back he apologizes for not understanding the cues and tries to be as cordial as possible with it all. What else should he have done after the fact? Now she'll (hopefully) know to make her expectations clear and so will Ansari. This whole thing didn't need to be as dramatic as it's been. They're both idiots. What a time to be gay, don't have to deal with this over complicating bullshit

[Krandor]

Saw this blip on Reddit earlier

A recent survey by The Economist/YouGov found that approximately 25 percent of millennial-age American women think asking someone for a drink is harassment. More than a third say that if a man compliments a woman’s looks it is harassment.

[NynJa]

Thats not even accurate!!

https://www.economist.com/blogs/grap...daily-chart-14



Its 25% of millennial-aged American MEN who think asking for a drink is harassment. I'm moving to Sweden. Frid ut tikar

[Niiro]

Neither statement is very accurate.

The highest point on the graph (youngest men) is below 25% and drops sharply.

Women in the range that would be considered millenial are flatly in the ~12% range.

[archibaldcrane]

Hey asking an 18 year old to go for a drink is harassment, it's mean to taunt people who can't get into a bar like that.

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[Niiro]

Also, who the fuck labelled that horizontal axis?

[NynJa]

Hey asking an 18 year old to go for a drink is harassment, it's mean to taunt people who can't get into a bar like that.

[Salodin]

Because there was a point at which she made it clear she didn't want to continue, a message he processed enough to say "Hey look it's not fun if we're not both having fun, I get it, it's okay."

And had he stopped there, it wouldn't have been an issue. But instead he suggested they go to the couch and just chill... then as soon as she sits he turns her around and points her at his junk.

We can talk about the different things she could and should have done, but none of that changes what Anzari did. He should have stopped at that point and there's no post-facto justifications for not doing so nor can you just chalk it up to "She sent mixed signals, I was clear all I wanted was to get my dick wet."

It's like walking down a dark alley at night and getting mugged. Yes your made a poor choice. But that doesn't make it okay for the mugger to mug you.

Outside of sexual harassment or assault, her actions absolutely matter. She isn't some child to be coddled. When she willingly went into his house after his date, willingly changed her mind about having sex after saying no, all these were mixed signals that tell Aziz that were a-ok to go. Being persistent is not against the rules here, and if she didn't care for that persistence she should have just left, not cry about it after the fact. Again, Aziz made it clear what he wanted and shouldn't feel ashamed for that.

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[Fondue]

Clearly she felt intimidated by a 4'6" indian man and could not clearly state her position of non consent because of the implication

[Vaspinne]

Clearly she felt intimidated by a 4'6" indian man and could not clearly state her position of non consent because of the implication

“When you're a star, they let you do it” -Your President.

[Fiye]

savage

[Day]

why don't they just say no or walk away? they aren't children that need to be coddled

[Zetanio]

why don't they just say no or walk away? they aren't children that need to be coddled

Yes they are Day.

Jeez.

You don't seem like the Coolest Monkey these days.

[Tymon]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/15/o...ment.html?_r=0

This may have already been linked but I agree with this article 100%.

Things like this are toxic to the agency of women and erodes the progress that the MeToo movement has made in finally starting to call out actual scumbags.

[archibaldcrane]

I don't really have a major problem with anything the woman did - like we are saying, she has agency. If she didn't want to fuck Aziz but did want some cuddles or conversation or whatever, it's totally fine for her to keep rebuffing his advances, or begrudgingly go along with them, or whatever. And telling her story is fine too - "Aziz was a horny, sexually persistent jerk who has a lot to learn if he wants to be an advocate for #metoo" is a perfectly fine piece of information to have out there about a public figure.

But I'm not going to pretend like she's a tragic victim or that he's a sexual predator - and I don't think most other people will either.

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[Day]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/15/o...ment.html?_r=0

This may have already been linked but I agree with this article 100%.

Things like this are toxic to the agency of women and erodes the progress that the MeToo movement has made in finally starting to call out actual scumbags.

I can't really say I fully agree. If she felt violated, she felt violated. I re-read her account a couple times now as if it was someone I really cared about telling me this and it's pretty gross honestly. (if it is accurate, but it's all I have to go on so that's what I'm going off of) If accurate then yeah he's kinda an actual scumbag.

It's not Weinstein or full on rape, but I'm not sure anyone is saying that it is. As I said from the start it's a grey area but he should have chilled out or called the uber much earlier, sounds like it was fairly obvious she wasn't really into it and was hoping for more of a relationship than a fuck, which I think is probably the root of the "miscommunication" and probably the reason she didn't want to leave or make a scene.

I'd probably be more open to defending Aziz if it wasn't for some of the reddit comments that are happening on these articles, stopping just short of calling her a stupid whore. Actually pretty disgusting state of affairs, it seems no one can just be mildly reasonable and everyone feels the need to have the extremest of takes, but then I try to remember what the reddit user base must look like. These heavy handed defense articles are leaving a bad taste in my mouth too, not really sure why.