Spoiler Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Spoiler Thread (It's not canon anyways)

[Salodin]

Spoiler: show

When I first saw this movie, I walked out unable to rate it. It had a lot of great moments -- great Star Wars moments -- but much of it is also ranged from ill conceived, to bad, to awful.

It didn't take me long to start disliking it more and more. Rian Johnson's irreverent disregard for the first movie and its worldbuilding, in what is supposed to be a coherent trilogy, is perplexing. I don't envy JJ's task in Episode IX.

Nothing from TFA is utilized in a meaningful way in TLJ. He swept the elaborately set up board clean. By the end of TFA, I was invested in the characters and intrigued by the worldbuilding. By the end of TLJ, I'm not interested in anyone or anything.

What is there to be excited about? Kylo Ren and Rey are both still novices. The Rebellion and the First Order's implausibly small fleets are both decimated. Every interesting character is dead (Luke, Leia, Snoke, Phasma). General Hux went from a Hitler-esque figure to a bumbling fool falling for a prank call.

Subversion can be fantastic, but that's not what was done here. If Rian Johnson wanted to be subversive, he could have had Rey and Kylo swap alignments, or shirk the polarization of Snoke/Luke and become grey. If he wanted to up the ante, he could have had Finn succeed in sacrificing himself. Instead, he unceremoniously killed Snoke, whose very appearance and powers were crafted to imply an interesting background, and discarded concepts like the Knights of Ren.

Movie felt like a poorly conceptualized Battlestar Galactica episode.

Spoiler: show

but the praetorian guard fight was brutal and awesome

Can't agree with this at all. What world building are you missing from TFA? They expanded on literally every character except Snoke, but that's fine cause he ded and ultimately was unimportant. Even the stupid hag from the bar in TFA had a moment to see what she was up to.

Ben and Rey being novices is of no importantance, even though I'd hardly call Ben a novice. The entire point of this movie was about doing away with the past, moving on from Sith and Jedi and their traditions and just into the Force and balance. One of the best scenes in the movie revolves around literally torching thousands of generations of knowledge into a book-burning fire. Poe is not interesting? Ben/Rey aren't interesting? Yeah okay...

This was definitely not the movie anyone asked for. There is no getting around that, but by god I really think this is one of the best Star Wars movies to date. Definitely top 2.

[Zetanio]

Burned no books.

Didn't mean nuffin.

[Salodin]

The like 7 books that contained millennia of Jedi knowledge. They must write reallllyyyyyyyy small.

[Vagrant]

I was thinking, but had no idea if it was valid, that if it worked the way we are shown in Ep8, wouldn't going into Hyperspace be extremely dangerous? All it would take is running into something, like a big rock, and you're toast.

Which is exactly how it works and has always worked since the very first movie as Han clearly explains to Luke aboard the Falcon during their escape from Tatooine. Passing through an asteroid field or supernova would cut their trip short really quick. That is why they are supposed to make precise calculations before even making the jump.

[Virg]

From start to finish they put so much thought into everything with this plot that it all just comes together in the end so amazingly. I can see why some people would complain, this is definitely a very different Star Wars movie, but by god I'm willing to say it's one of the best; it's definitely the best character development at the very least.

Biggest complaint I can probably call out are the/you nerds crying over how Luke died. What a fucking way though, confronting his apprentice and saying his goodbyes. In the end it really put a nice bow on the whole plot and passing things on to the next generation. They even gave my man a tatooine-like sunset after he fucking astral projected across the galaxy. I'm glad he didn't actually get off the planet or fight Ben; he put himself into exile for failing his pupil and it wouldn't have fit imo that he all of a sudden is now out to stop his own pupil considering everything he went on about in regards to the Force and the balance of the universe. Yoda kinda hamfisted it for the plebs, but it's Yoda and the scene was done marvelously.

Honestly, the first hour and a half I just had no idea where this was all going, but that final hour or so really just brought it all together. I'm so glad I went in with the open mind and just watched it for what they were trying to do.

100% agree with you. Fuck that last scene with Luke actually made me tear up. Which never fucking happens. I had a real feeling of letting something of my childhood go, that I didn´t even know was there before. Sounds weird but that´s how it felt and I´m pretty sure that´s what they were aiming for. Also..nice thread title edit. I´m 110% less confused now.

[Aerin]

I preface this with the fact that I'm not really a Star Wars fan, but there have been movies I would say I liked or disliked. While with TFA I did see how much it paralleled with ANH, but I still enjoyed the movie. Thought the Star Killer base was the most absurd thing ever, but the characters were all interesting and was looking forward to more.

The first half of this movie was just painful to watch for me and didn't make much sense. I guess Luke shut himself off from the force, yet was able to use it multiple times on the island? And because he temp-shut himself off, he couldn't feel Han's passing or the fact that Chewie was there on the island as well? Sending the bombers in the opening scene didn't make sense to me because it seemed perfectly obvious it was a suicide mission, but for what? There was no reason other than Poe wanted to blow the ship up. Also, the entire movie treated space like it has air present except for that one scene with Leia being sucked out. Just be consistent with your rule breaking.

The second half was better but there were still moments that took me out of the movie completely. Like Rose just suddenly saving Finn at the last second. I mean at that moment, the rest of the Rebels are about to be wiped out, Finn is trying to kill the cannon, and then you push him away to save him and then... what? You'd still be dead and by saving him you doom the rest of the Rebels. Is it because she loves him? She did say that they need to save the people they loved and then kissed him, but that made no sense to me at all because at no point before then did it seem like she had any romantic feelings for him whatsoever. Rose I just don't understand in general. She's a mechanic that somehow knows about this experimental system that can track ships at lightspeed and is also a pilot? Oh and the whole mutiny sub-plot felt totally unnecessary and just made Poe look like an idiot to me.

Snoke's death felt out of place. I like how they did it, but feel it would've been better in IX after we found out something about his past or who he was. I mean anything. Was he a Sith lord or just some guy that was super strong in the Force? Idgi. He was clearly much stronger than both of them. Rey's lineage honestly didn't bother me that much.

[EternityEnd]

Can't agree with this at all. What world building are you missing from TFA? They expanded on literally every character except Snoke, but that's fine cause he ded and ultimately was unimportant. Even the stupid hag from the bar in TFA had a moment to see what she was up to.

Knights of Ren? Snoke? Rey's force vision? Anything on how the galaxy is dealing with the aftermath of the Republic's destruction?

Regardless of it not addressing any of the questions deliberately posed in TFA, it also just did little to move the plot forward. It felt like Johnson's entire purpose was deconstructing everything that happened in TFA, regardless of whether it made sense or progressed the plot in a believable manner.

Ben and Rey being novices is of no importantance, even though I'd hardly call Ben a novice. The entire point of this movie was about doing away with the past, moving on from Sith and Jedi and their traditions and just into the Force and balance. One of the best scenes in the movie revolves around literally torching thousands of generations of knowledge into a book-burning fire. Poe is not interesting? Ben/Rey aren't interesting? Yeah okay...

Except the books weren't burned, and Rey is obviously intending to rebuild the Jedi Order.

And I'd absolutely call Kylo Ren a novice. He's mentally stuck in adolescence, and hasn't shown a fraction of Snoke's aptitude in the force. He's completely unbelievable as the Big Bad going forward, as shown in his comedy routine with Hux.

(Speaking of: Hux is emblematic of TLJ's bad writing. Is he a nazi general or a basement dwelling white nationalist? Make up your mind and have some consistency, please, movies. Wish they gave Phasma half of his screentime.)

---

Again, TLJ had some really great moments. The Praetorian Guard fight was awesome. Andy Serkis' portrayal of Snoke was outstanding, even if his death was questionable. I even enjoyed Rose, despite the awful plot she was inserted into.

But overall the movie feels poorly written, incoherent, and distinctly removed from TFA. At every single turn, Johnson tried to play the subversion card, and it became a bit of a farce.

[Aerin]

Except the books weren't burned, and Rey is obviously intending to rebuild the Jedi Order.

Gonna second this. At the very end Luke said that he would not be the last Jedi, and she clearly had the books on the ship. The Knights of Ren seem like they could've been interesting. Luke actually said that Kylo took some of the students with him, so I'm guessing the Knights of Ren are other quasi-sith? No idea where they are, or if they're dead now. But could've been interesting.

And Poe was not interesting in this movie. He was an idiot and a jackass.

[Weltall]

The entire point of this movie was about doing away with the past, moving on from Sith and Jedi and their traditions and just into the Force and balance. One of the best scenes in the movie revolves around literally torching thousands of generations of knowledge into a book-burning fire.

See, it is damn near impossible to take even half of the people who liked it serious because they say things like this; you obviously missed one of the most important parts of the entire ending...

[Salodin]

Uh...no, you don't get it!

You're gonna have to elaborate.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

[Krandor]

So you just completely missed the part where Rey stole all the books and they showed them on the Falcon at the end?

[Salodin]

Gonna second this. At the very end Luke said that he would not be the last Jedi, and she clearly had the books on the ship. The Knights of Ren seem like they could've been interesting. Luke actually said that Kylo took some of the students with him, so I'm guessing the Knights of Ren are other quasi-sith? No idea where they are, or if they're dead now. But could've been interesting.

And Poe was not interesting in this movie. He was an idiot and a jackass.

On the other hand, Ben clearly states he wants to do away with it all. And did Yoda tell Luke the books weren't in there anymore? Either way, Luke did say he's not the last Jedi, but I assume he's talking about a new Jedi not some continuation of what has survived thus far. This is assuming the books are of any use other then training you how to use Force abilities.

I thought the kid at the end pointed to this pretty openly. Random kid suddenly force grabbing a broom without even noticing it. It's like Avatar up in here now, everyone got powers and shit.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

[Salodin]

So you just completely missed the part where Rey stole all the books and they showed them on the Falcon at the end?

I must have cause I missed it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

[kuronosan]

If I was at my computer I'd type out a lengthy analysis none of you would agree with.

[Zetanio]

I must have cause I missed it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

You definitely missed it.

[Aerin]

The fleet is in a high speed chase for 24 hours... but small ships can just jet away to go play casino side story and jet back onboard?

Calling it a high speed chase made me chuckle. It felt like they were all adrift to me. I also don't understand why the FO ships couldn't just jump right to them with their lightspeed. Taking a small ship to another planet seemed odd at that point in the movie. Like if you could do that and go anywhere, why doesn't the leadership take that into account at all? Why aren't you trying to get people off the ship, or take it somewhere for help? I understand sending one ship for Finn and Rose's mission, was it the only one?

She took the biggest ship the resistance had, went head on as fast as possible aaaannnndddd.... fucked up the FO ship but didn't cripple it. Most of the people on board survived, the FO still mounted an attack on the resistance base 10 minutes later.

It had to have crippled or destroyed all the FO ships though. Otherwise, why even go to the planet on foot at all? You could just shoot it from space.

On the other hand, Ben clearly states he wants to do away with it all. And did Yoda tell Luke the books weren't in there anymore? Either way, Luke did say he's not the last Jedi, but I assume he's talking about a new Jedi not some continuation of what has survived thus far. This is assuming the books are of any use other then training you how to use Force abilities.

I thought the kid at the end pointed to this pretty openly. Random kid suddenly force grabbing a broom without even noticing it. It's like Avatar up in here now, everyone got powers and shit.

Well, you said the entire point of the movie was to wipe the slate clean. And while that may be what Kylo Ren wants, that's not what's going to happen as Luke foreshadows. Random kid grabbing the broom didn't mean much to me. Before RotS the Jedi were training kids with force powers all the time.

[Salodin]

Rey being the last Jedi but a random kid force pulling a broom and not realizing is nbd?

Idk, I feel like I'm talking to people who wanted this to be an original trilogy remake, now with a mask-less Vader, and a machining accident survivor for a Sith Lord.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

[Mythe_Seraph]

If that was all the resistance had left why didn't they just evacuate a star destroyer into kylo's ship then hyperspeed the star destroyer into the rebel fleet and just be done with it at the expense of one star destroyer that they seem to have a lot of?

[Dantrag]

Calling it a high speed chase made me chuckle. It felt like they were all adrift to me. I also don't understand why the FO ships couldn't just jump right to them with their lightspeed. Taking a small ship to another planet seemed odd at that point in the movie. Like if you could do that and go anywhere, why doesn't the leadership take that into account at all? Why aren't you trying to get people off the ship, or take it somewhere for help? I understand sending one ship for Finn and Rose's mission, was it the only one?

Someone posted this on Reddit and I'll respond in the same manner. Let's assume that Star Wars hyperspace is lightspeed at a minimum. I'm sure it's hella faster like BSG's FTL. They would have to do something like a .000000001 lightspeed jump to catch up. Because if they jumped to LS for even 1 second, they'd be 180,000 miles ahead of where they were currently at.

It had to have crippled or destroyed all the FO ships though. Otherwise, why even go to the planet on foot at all? You could just shoot it from space.

They stated that their shields were up and they couldn't be bombarded by those ships.

Well, you said the entire point of the movie was to wipe the slate clean. And while that may be what Kylo Ren wants, that's not what's going to happen as Luke foreshadows. Random kid grabbing the broom didn't mean much to me. Before RotS the Jedi were training kids with force powers all the time.

They were taking them as babies if they were force sensitive and training them. I mean, look at Luke, he was Anakin's child and had 0 ability with what we would consider the force outside of a his shooting ability.

[Weltall]

You (Sal) should have just exited the conversation, a couple posts back.