Loot Boxes are Gambling - Get fucked EA

[Psion]

well yes, but that's because a 25% drop rate translates to a .1% drop rate for me, therefore i have to work much harder to get my chocolate sprinkles. >:

[Outlaw]

Congress finally doing something right for once.

[BaneTheBrawler]

I think Paradox's Stellaris is a great example of how to do DLC right. First, they're extremely transparent about why they're charging for the DLC they release. For example, they have one art pack DLC out, and are launching another. They explained this is because their most recent updates to the base game have been largely code-based, so their artists were going to be sitting around doing nothing. Gotta keep the lights on, so might as well have them whip up a new set of optional visuals you can use to flavor your game. It doesn't affect the gameplay at all, though since the game is often as much about role-play as it is the actual gameplay, it does have an impact. They also have several paid-DLC feature packs: DLC that DO have an effect on gameplay. These are features that required significant time/effort from both the programmers and the artists, and would add radical differences to the base game. These invariably launch alongside massive free updates to the base game, which typically include all of the QoL improvements and any changes that fit in the base game without the added features. These packs have been developed over the course of years of support for the game. Essentially, each DLC is its own mini expansion. It's typically priced between $10-$20.

But those didn't come into play until many months/years after launch.

[Tyche]

I'm not arguing that point. While that's true, it's also on the parents to help shield their kid from / teach their kids to not fall into corporate bullshit like this.

Do you have kids? Because parents can teach this over and over and over, then they get a shiny object in their face, or in many cases, watch a YouTube video by a paid shill that says why they need something, and the cycle begins again. Children are mentally malleable. As they’re supposed to be. This makes them quite easily susceptible to corporate coercion. As someone said, even adults fall into this micro transaction pit, you cannot expect even the best raised of children to exercise fiduciary responsibility that some adults cannot hold themselves to.

I don’t load any of my payment data on any of my kids electronics. I do not let them buy any in-game purchases. They do not have their account passwords. I won’t even get them play store or iTunes cards. It drove them bananas when they got into Roblox, but oh well.

[Kalmado]

I don't have kids, but I can easily see a youngster watching their favorite youtuber or twitch person shilling their website or whatever and begging their parents to buy in. The entire loot box system is bullshit and it always has been. I'm also very down on DLC in general but especially anything that's early access (ARK debacle). I never had a problem buying a game on release before because that's what you got. Somehow it's now acceptable to put out a buggy piece of shit with day 1 DLC and gamers have essentially been forced to just accept it. The only saving grace for me is the fact that there is so much available for gamers that I can wait to buy a GOTY edition for say $30 instead of paying $60 on release and $20+ for DLC.

[Ragnus]

Do you have kids? Because parents can teach this over and over and over, then they get a shiny object in their face, or in many cases, watch a YouTube video by a paid shill that says why they need something, and the cycle begins again. Children are mentally malleable. As they’re supposed to be. This makes them quite easily susceptible to corporate coercion. As someone said, even adults fall into this micro transaction pit, you cannot expect even the best raised of children to exercise fiduciary responsibility that some adults cannot hold themselves to.

I don’t load any of my payment data on any of my kids electronics. I do not let them buy any in-game purchases. They do not have their account passwords. I won’t even get them play store or iTunes cards. It drove them bananas when they got into Roblox, but oh well.

To answer the question, no, but I'll probably be jumping off that cliff soon because my wife has recently come down with the baby rabies.

Also, thank you for proving my point. It's a parent's job to make up for the majority of their kids' mental malleability even if it's maddening for both parties. Re-record a "That was easy!" button with "No.", and do your best to teach them the difference between wants and needs when they're throwing their shit over how their life isn't complete without X.

I'm honestly not even defending loot boxes. They're pure bull, and totally evil when they're your only means of getting performance enhancing stuff. Even in Overwatch, they make you feel like you need to get every new skin they come out with, lest you have heroes with a perpetually unfinished "X/Y unlockables"

[synistar]

I had a long-winded response but I could just cut straight to the chase.

I'm ok with some micro transaction (MTX) models (ex: Overwatch, Path of Exile, Rainbow 6: Siege) that fund further development or completely cosmetic or don't affect gameplay. But a good number of them are just plain stupid (EA, AAA with lots of DLC gated content, pay for power MTX) and are downright predatory.

My light-handed solution would be to require Two Factor authentication for accounts flagged for "Minors have access" Make it difficult for minors to make these purchases or don't even allow these accounts to have credit card information attached. One would have to add CC information for each purchase then have an additional confirmation via an email or an app to approve transactions. Will it work? Maybe, but we all know how clever teenagers can be to get all the information. But at least guardians would be more informed about their kids being enticed by MTX/Loot Boxes.

[Jaybar]

I was a fan of the Witcher 3 DLC. It wasn't required to finish the game. It was simply a way to flesh out more of the story and add more content to play after you finished the base game. I think it helped that the DLC was worth the playtime it cost. ME:3 DLC seemed lackluster and added very little for the cost of the DLC (I never bought any, this was just feedback from various players I've heard over the years. Citadel was supposedly the best DLC?). But none of these DLC packages could be considered "gambling" and I'm ok with developers making these available. If I'm required to buy DLC to finish the game then I'm out.

[Tyche]

To answer the question, no, but I'll probably be jumping off that cliff soon because my wife has recently come down with the baby rabies.

Also, thank you for proving my point. It's a parent's job to make up for the majority of their kids' mental malleability even if it's maddening for both parties. Re-record a "That was easy!" button with "No.", and do your best to teach them the difference between wants and needs when they're throwing their shit over how their life isn't complete without X.

I'm honestly not even defending loot boxes. They're pure bull, and totally evil when they're your only means of getting performance enhancing stuff. Even in Overwatch, they make you feel like you need to get every new skin they come out with, lest you have heroes with a perpetually unfinished "X/Y unlockables"

Your point was it's on the parents to teach kids not to fall to predatory corporate tactics. Which, if you had kids, you'd understand is simply not feasible. 10 year old children don't have the cognitive ability to make nuanced responsible choices. Especially when parents themselves fall victim. Parents can also be incredibly responsible, yet simply don't have the understanding of the current economy of gaming to even enforce these types of rules for kids.

[kuronosan]

I love watching people without kids tell people with kids that parents should control their kids.

[Aerin]

I just want to say that in regards to DLC, it’s being done a lot nowadays because it really does help keep the lights on. Game development is really expensive and the $60 a game costs, if it’s a physical copy sold in a store, the studio really only gets about half of that. The rest goes to distributors and retail. They see no revenue from used game sales either.

[Ksandra]

I love watching people without kids tell people with kids that parents should control their kids.

This is a parent's life about 60% of the time.

It's not that I don't think people without kids should have an opinion, btw. But I think it's stupid when someone without kids won't believe what people with kids tell them.

[Mrbeansman]

People talking how lootboxs are necessary because games are expensive will always be full of shit as long as LOL keeps grossing a billion dollars annually while not engaging in that bullshit.

[dasva]

Do you have kids? Because parents can teach this over and over and over, then they get a shiny object in their face, or in many cases, watch a YouTube video by a paid shill that says why they need something, and the cycle begins again.

Speaking of which sometimes it's even worse. There's been instances where that youtube shill was actually an owner of what they were shilling but wasn't disclosing that fact or the fact their example vids were made to only show successes etc. Normally not disclosing you are promoting your own business is illegal but new frontier and all without specific laws to this

[kuronosan]

I don't mind commentary from people without kids but there are quite a few things they don't understand. It's like explaining to someone why a patient won't take their medications even though they're dying.

[Mrbeansman]

Speaking of which sometimes it's even worse. There's been instances where that youtube shill was actually an owner of what they were shilling but wasn't disclosing that fact or the fact their example vids were made to only show successes etc. Normally not disclosing you are promoting your own business is illegal but new frontier and all without specific laws to this

CSGO guys were basically told to disclose everything from now on or face the wrath of the FTC.

[Anoat]

I'd rather have lootboxes than kids.

[dasva]

I just want to say that in regards to DLC, it’s being done a lot nowadays because it really does help keep the lights on. Game development is really expensive and the $60 a game costs, if it’s a physical copy sold in a store, the studio really only gets about half of that. The rest goes to distributors and retail. They see no revenue from used game sales either.

While the latter part of that might be true a lot of big companies have actually cut down on total development costs over the last 10 years or so while also charging more per games and having a wider audience and often more games. Actually production costs are waaaaaaaaaaaaaay down. Also there are examples of plenty of very successful games going at decently under $60 price tag

[Mrbeansman]

The games industry doesnt get to cry poverty while pulling major sponsorship deals from Tostinos pizza rolls and Pepsico and not showing any financial data at all.

[dasva]

I had a long-winded response but I could just cut straight to the chase.

I'm ok with some micro transaction (MTX) models (ex: Overwatch, Path of Exile, Rainbow 6: Siege) that fund further development or completely cosmetic or don't affect gameplay.

This one is a tricky one. While it doesn't effect things directly and it can indirectly. Overwatch for example makes not that much comparatively on their boxes and it's doubtful that affects much. However other games (usually f2p) even microtransactions for things not affecting game play can end up bad as devs can end up catering to their whales