Actual YouTube/Twitch drama thread

[Xno Kappa]

Having said that, one of the very first things you tell a victim is to not post or discuss the god damn thing on social media. It's why I always thought the #metoo shit was counter intuitive and retarded as fuck in the grand scheme of things.

[Athas]

So no one answered yet. What kind of evidence would work for you guys?

Idk shit about any of this people. This is a completely unbiased question. I just wanna know what kind of evidence it takes before we can consider a rape claim and take it seriously (this does not mean instantly judging the accused as guilty).

I mean, all accusations should be taken seriously, no? There's not like some minimum threshold were they could be dismissed out of hand.

But that's not saying to instantly judge the other party guilty.

[Fiye]

The reason why #MeToo is a fucking is a combination of this shit being under reported and failing to get convinctions. Gred has already posted about this

Then from there its a matter of shit making it to trial (To which filters out even more cases because some women don't want to deal with facing their accuser) and there being enough evidence to prove that without a doubt the defendant performed whatever act there is to the point that somewhere around .5 to .6% of rapes make it to a conviction.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...no-prison.html

When you look for facts, what you find is that the few we have are woefully insufficient. Sexual assault is massively underreported, and even when victims come forward, convictions are rare. According to RAINN, only 5 out of every 1,000 rapes committed—that’s 0.5 percent—ends in a felony conviction. The Washington Post puts the figure at 7 out of 1,000, but pretty much everyone agrees it’s under 1 percent. We usually try to make sense of this painfully low number by noting that many rapes aren’t reported, which is true, but the crime is also notoriously under-investigated.

So while its counter intuitive to do it. The justice system already fails hard enough in resulting in criminal convictions that to actually get any sort of consolation prize you need to change the culture around an industry to shun people who are accused of doing that shit otherwise if we went based off court convictions nothing should have happened to Kevin Spacey

[Xno Kappa]

So while its counter intuitive to do it. The justice system already fails hard enough in resulting in criminal convictions that to actually get any sort of consolation prize you need to change the culture around an industry to shun people who are accused of doing that shit otherwise if we went based off court convictions nothing should have happened to Kevin Spacey

So you're justifying a medium in which likes, followers, etc. is highly encouraged for monetization purposes being absolutely fine to use for trial by public opinion? All the while making a legitimate investigation into the incident that much more difficult?

[Xno Kappa]

Admittedly I don't know the details about who this Zoe Quinn chick is but I do know a guy is dead over it. In an age where a spike in suicides is due to internet bullying, I find it hard to be sympathetic with someone who's biggest take from all this is her twitter account being deleted.

[Fiye]

So you're justifying a medium in which likes, followers, etc. is highly encouraged for monetization purposes is absolutely fine to use for trial by public opinion? All the while making a legitimate investigation into the incident that much more difficult?

I hate to break it to you but law enforcement is already making it harder on themselves. With untested rape kits and destroyed rape kits. And then there's even police that don't assign prosecutors.

I know you work in this kind of shit. And I know you do good awesome fucking amazing work. But you are an outlier in the field of this shit and there isn't a lot of faith in reporting this shit and hoping justice makes it way. It doesn't and its much easier to call out someone, hope your actions inspire others who were also affected, and maybe with enough voices private actions take over.

Would you rather victims have no hope in legal recourse or pursue things civilly even if they risk a defamation lawsuit?

[Mrbeansman]

Admittedly I don't know the details about who this Zoe Quinn chick is but I do know a guy is dead over it. In an age where a spike in suicides is due to internet bullying, I find it hard to be sympathetic with someone who's biggest take from all this is her twitter account being deleted.

Zoe Quinn was already the target of one largest harassment campaigns in the history of the internet and you expect her to leave an outlet for harassment open after this?

[Xno Kappa]

Would you rather victims have no hope in legal recourse or pursue things civilly even if they risk a defamation lawsuit?

My one and only point is that if they wish to see any kind of justice whatsoever, a 140 character medium on social media isn't the answer.

[Fiye]

My one and only point is that if they wish to see any kind of justice whatsoever, a 140 character medium on social media isn't the answer.

If you read my previous posts you would understand that her statement was made across 6 pictures using the iPhone note app. And because of this the other people who worked with Alec Holowka received emails from other accusers detailing what had happened and they decided to terminate any relationship they had with him.

https://kotaku.com/night-in-the-wood...ies-1837783073

On Wednesday, fellow Night in the Woods developer Scott Benson said he and his wife Bethany Hockenberry were cutting ties with Holowka, noting in an update to Kickstarter backers that there was much more to the story than just one accusation. Other game developers shared corroboration and words of support throughout the week, and on Thursday, another woman said Holowka attempted to remove her from a game they were working on after she rejected his advances.

[Jefe]

she shoulda used tweet longer huh

[arus2001]

Like, I can understand not wanting to believe someone you like could've done something terrible, but we can't really run on the assumption that absence of evidence is evidence of absence. People in power often abuse it. Those abused by it frequently feel like there is no recourse or that they are somehow deserving of the treatment because of their own lesser status. The stuff with Vic is pretty much a culmination of #MeToo before it was really a thing with all the rumors and sketchy photos floating around. Unfortunately, it took a couple co-workers to eventually break that dam and here we are seeing them getting doxxed, rape/death threats (at cons), and habitually harassed by his overzealous fans. I further find it difficult to believe they're doing this just for funsies when they were also never in a position of competing roles. Any disdain Sabat or Schlemmel had for him is an entirely different issue, with unsavory bloopers or 18+ panels not even being in the same league of grabbing women by the hair and talking dirty into their ear, forcing unwanted hugs, and so on.

But I get it, you want video tape proof corroborated by hundreds of witnesses, only to just say they were acting, the footage was edited, or something. For those that don't want to believe, the goalposts will constantly shift. That's further why the movement is that much more important. In this case, they're not trying to jail him. They don't want to have to work with or be near him ever again. Yes, he chose a particularly insular career where this sort of behavior can "ruin" you, but the touchy feely christian defense can only go so far, and he's pretty much admitted to such. The counter-suit is just one last ditch effort to milk some cash from his career with an otherwise inept lawyer hoping to gain some fame he'd otherwise never get while pulling shit like leaking evidence onto youtube.

[Byrthnoth]

Even if he did everything he was accused of, no court would have given him the death penalty.

You can believe he is guilty and still criticize/regret how this played out and seek to avoid it in the future.

[Sho]

What a crazy world we live when when court of public opinion actually takes precedence over due process of law.

[Fiye]

What a crazy world we live when when court of public opinion actually takes precedence over due process of law.

But its private citizens making private decisions? Last I checked no one hauled his ass to jail.

[Prothescar]

I'm not taking anyone's side on this but generally speaking people who get #metoo'd often have their lives brought to a screeching halt. People flooding employers with complaints, trying to get their social media and other online presences shut down, I've even seen some whose financial institutions refuse to handle transactions for them but those are very rare and extreme cases. I do think there is a power dynamic in #metoo that is very difficult to defend yourself against but very easy to get you fucked up for potentially the rest of your life, whether the accusations are true or not, and there have been cases where men and women who accuse someone of rape or other such molestation come out and admit that they lied after all the damage was already done, and i can tell you that they never face proper repercussions for their actions which seems awfully unfair.

[kuronosan]

There have been cases that enumerate to about 0.05% of the total real cases.

You're making it seem like a lot of false rape accusations happen and the truth is they don't.

[Fiye]

Or that happens with #MeToo cases and even then people eventually catch on. James Gunn got his shit back (Tho GotG 3 was pushed back) and MSNBC eventually rehired Sam Seder following the allegations Mike Cernovich pushed on both of them.

[Xno Kappa]

But its private citizens making private decisions? Last I checked no one hauled his ass to jail.

Now you’re just being incredibly obtuse about it. If you’re fine with the guy dead just come out and say it.

[Salodin]

Are we blaming other people for this suicide? Cause this was no ones fault except his own. And we certainly shouldnt be blaming his victims for calling him out, even if it led to his coward ass killing himself cause he couldnt face the scrutiny.

I see plenty of people like Louis CK and Aziz Ansari doing just fine after their metoo stints, so this excuse of twitter justice taking precedence over actual law is bullshit. I mean are people legitimately trying to argue that this guy killed himself because people lied about him sexually harassing women? Ssuurreeeeeee

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[Tymon]

Y'all in here arguing semantics over how to properly report a sexual assault are really showing your lack of interaction with survivors. Like really the fucking police? lmfao

I'll grab my pitchfork and get mad as soon as we have one single instance of shit like this LEGITIMATELY being a false accusation. There have literally been zero instances of this happening since metoo, yet people still keep parading the concept around as if it's widespread of something. It's almost like you actually can believe the victims, god damn who would have thought?