New or Returning Players Discussion 3: FFXI Single Player Edition

[crux]

Odin has a reputation for being the Japanese server, so Bahamut is probably the safer English speaking choice.

On the quickstart guide, I've never used it much so I don't know any specifics, but I saw a few players commenting that it's a bit outdated regarding the leveling sections. If you're motivated, might be worth going through them and see if they could use any improvement.

[Spicyryan]

Odin has a reputation for being the Japanese server, so Bahamut is probably the safer English speaking choice.

On the quickstart guide, I've never used it much so I don't know any specifics, but I saw a few players commenting that it's a bit outdated regarding the leveling sections. If you're motivated, might be worth going through them and see if they could use any improvement.

Leveling sections?

[Gadritan]

Leveling sections?

Fantastic XPs and where to find them, yes.

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[Spicyryan]

Fantastic XPs and where to find them, yes.

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Oh, I was confused because they said the Quickstart.

The leveling area dont change in this game anymore. I would like to know how it could ever be outdated. If something isn't there then that is another story.

[Gadritan]

Oh, I was confused because they said the Quickstart.

The leveling area dont change in this game anymore. I would like to know how it could ever be outdated. If something isn't there then that is another story.

Ya, idk how it could be improved much either tbh. After the first run through you kinda shift around lvling based on doubling up with other personal objectives along the way. That's too nuanced to put into a guide.

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[Spicyryan]

Ya, idk how it could be improved much either tbh. After the first run through you kinda shift around lvling based on doubling up with other personal objectives along the way. That's too nuanced to put into a guide.

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Someone had been trying to put into the guide to stay on stuff until its basically just EP and spam the book and rings for "optimal XP", but that is a personal goal and not a camp range. After undoing their edits maybe 6 times that stopped.

The EXP guide can certainly be improved, but it is an effort to reward ratio that isn't high enough.

[Gadritan]

Someone had been trying to put into the guide to stay on stuff until its basically just EP and spam the book and rings for "optimal XP", but that is a personal goal and not a camp range. After undoing their edits maybe 6 times that stopped.

The EXP guide can certainly be improved, but it is an effort to reward ratio that isn't high enough.

Gross lol. Ya. I mean, you spend like 30-45min at each camp until you out lvl it.

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[Spicyryan]

Gross lol. Ya. I mean, you spend like 30-45min at each camp until you out lvl it.

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Thats good. It means you are gaining 10-15 levels in 30-45 minutes.

[Karbuncle]

Somewhat, but it is more than that. Its not just a matter of a larger population. I had previously acknowledged that happens with a bigger pool of people, and that a longer queue was worth the cost for the sake of opportunities and the availability of relationships as well.
Nonetheless, it is more of a culture shift. Enough people have decided to endorse and support a culture that perpetuates the huge number of bots, mercs, and RMT we have running rampant on Asura. Players I know and like have returned to the game. Complained no one helps anyone anymore, and that you have to pay people for everything. Only to turn around and do the same to others once they get back into the game enough.
So if that is the prevailing collective choice by the player based towards hyper individualism and domination based thinking. Then I won't recommend people come to the epicenter of what is a lack of integrity and thoughtfulness towards their fellow players.



Thanks, made it three years ago or so now.

Yah that sounds like Asura. One of the reasons I can never get back into the game is because 99% of shouts you see are Sell-Runs, its very difficult to just find people to play with, especially when your gear might be dated or not caught up, and the one solo activity I enjoyed is dead as a concept (Hunting NMs, obscure, useless, or otherwise), I've camped and killed all the ones that matter... but even the WOTG era ones are childs play with Trusts and 119, theres no thrill in it anymore, and instanced content just isn't the same. NNI during the NNI campaigns is fun though...

That said, I did find a very VERY generous and helpful person when I came back for a bit during the last free log-in campaign, he found me through my Stream and played with me for a bit. He was a Multi-boxer, had a lot of extremely well geared characters, but he helped me and my brother "catch up" on gear, for free, asked for nothing in return. He helped us both get a lot of the gear I was missing by soloing most of the NMs in Void-Sky/Zi'Tah, and helping me get some progress on my Aeonic, which helped me finish my GK Aeonic while I was back. not to mention spending an absurd amount of gil to help me finish a >completely< useless Relic(Getting my Mandau the final non-augment step), he was just a genuinely nice person and I felt like a schmuck accepting so much free assistance from him and not being able to help him or return the favor at all, he's a dying breed that for sure.

I think the only thing that'll get me to actually come back now is if they finally addressed Relics being fucking worthless paper weights and at least made them mildly useful as anything but a mannequin prop. They don't need to be #1 but damn, "useable" would be a nice step.

[Gadritan]

Yah that sounds like Asura. One of the reasons I can never get back into the game is because 99% of shouts you see are Sell-Runs, its very difficult to just find people to play with, especially when your gear might be dated or not caught up, and the one solo activity I enjoyed is dead as a concept (Hunting NMs, obscure, useless, or otherwise), I've camped and killed all the ones that matter... but even the WOTG era ones are childs play with Trusts and 119, theres no thrill in it anymore, and instanced content just isn't the same. NNI during the NNI campaigns is fun though...

That said, I did find a very VERY generous and helpful person when I came back for a bit during the last free log-in campaign, he found me through my Stream and played with me for a bit. He was a Multi-boxer, had a lot of extremely well geared characters, but he helped me and my brother "catch up" on gear, for free, asked for nothing in return. He helped us both get a lot of the gear I was missing by soloing most of the NMs in Void-Sky/Zi'Tah, and helping me get some progress on my Aeonic, which helped me finish my GK Aeonic while I was back. not to mention spending an absurd amount of gil to help me finish a >completely< useless Relic(Getting my Mandau the final non-augment step), he was just a genuinely nice person and I felt like a schmuck accepting so much free assistance from him and not being able to help him or return the favor at all, he's a dying breed that for sure.

I think the only thing that'll get me to actually come back now is if they finally addressed Relics being fucking worthless paper weights and at least made them mildly useful as anything but a mannequin prop. They don't need to be #1 but damn, "useable" would be a nice step.

I hear this a lot, and yet, I've had the exact opposite experience. The LS I joined helps new players get caught up. I've made tons of friends in random groups. I've helped newbies/returnees with tons of content. I know people that pretty much do this as their main source of entertainment since they've basically beat the game.

It's similar to the old days in the respect that you just have to reach out and ask for help. It's there. Just ask. Will there be trolls, elitest, and general dbags about it? Well yeah. That's nothing new either.

I'm on Asura btw.

As a side note, the tons of gil that dude spent on your relic isn't tons of gil anymore. You can make millions upon millions every week without really even trying hard if you look for it. Of someone is multiboxing I can assure you something like 100-200m is a drop in the bucket.

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[Gadritan]

And idg the concern with relics. They're the easiest/fastest and usually cheapest to make. It doesn't make sense to make them as OP as some Mythics/Empys/Aeonics.

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[Karbuncle]

I hear this a lot, and yet, I've had the exact opposite experience. The LS I joined helps new players get caught up. I've made tons of friends in random groups. I've helped newbies/returnees with tons of content. I know people that pretty much do this as their main source of entertainment since they've basically beat the game.

It's similar to the old days in the respect that you just have to reach out and ask for help. It's there. Just ask. Will there be trolls, elitest, and general dbags about it? Well yeah. That's nothing new either.

Thats a wonderful experience and I'm glad there are LS's like yours still out there, but you sure are a rare breed. Unless you have the resources/knowledge before hand or dumb luck to find a LS like yours with actually active and helpful players, Asura is a coin toss, and I say that as a player who has been on Asura since day 1. and Shouting for a newbie/returning player friendly LS is a mixed bag of results and I know you know this, some folks just won't ever run into people like you which, sucks.

I would like to note I did have a LS for Neo-Dynamis and the Reisenjima Catura fucks which, for the most part were pleasant folks. But it definitely felt like most of them were going to work, clock in, do your job, clock out kind of deal. You know, the kind of energy someone whos been playing the same game for (20 years now?) and at this point the joy is gone but the habit is formed and you log in out of it. Which you know, may have been your average experience 10 years ago and if so for that I'm truly sorry for you, but it wasn't mine.

But yah, Fuck dude, it could just be me and I know this lol. I know for a fact my experience with XI 10-15 years ago was way different than the average BG players was, I'm shocked I even found this forum back then with how much I avoided endgame LS's. I'm willing to admit I've grown closed off since I've aged, and maybe I was just much luckier back then and ran into some really good folks which could have been the rarity of those days instead of the norm, an opposite of what i'm claiming now. I have about 6 people I met when I was 15-18 in the super early days of XI who I still talk to today and are still friends with, we still play games together sometimes.

And idg the concern with relics. They're the easiest/fastest and usually cheapest to make. It doesn't make sense to make them as OP as some Mythics/Empys/Aeonics.

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YO, ok buddy, you crossed a line here, you're killing me with this shit. I said >

They don't need to be #1 but damn, "useable" would be a nice step.

Mandau is a poop stick. Its worse than several significantly easier to obtain options. Yes I know they're easy to get these days damn, I didn't get them "these days" though okay, I just want my gold stick to be serviceable is that soo much to ask? THF has suffered enough abuse over the years, I don't need this S H I T. Just let me use Mercy Stroke without it lowering my DPS or being worse than fucking Viper Bite (exaggeration).

[Spicyryan]

Yah that sounds like Asura. One of the reasons I can never get back into the game is because 99% of shouts you see are Sell-Runs, its very difficult to just find people to play with, especially when your gear might be dated or not caught up, and the one solo activity I enjoyed is dead as a concept (Hunting NMs, obscure, useless, or otherwise), I've camped and killed all the ones that matter... but even the WOTG era ones are childs play with Trusts and 119, theres no thrill in it anymore, and instanced content just isn't the same. NNI during the NNI campaigns is fun though...

That said, I did find a very VERY generous and helpful person when I came back for a bit during the last free log-in campaign, he found me through my Stream and played with me for a bit. He was a Multi-boxer, had a lot of extremely well geared characters, but he helped me and my brother "catch up" on gear, for free, asked for nothing in return. He helped us both get a lot of the gear I was missing by soloing most of the NMs in Void-Sky/Zi'Tah, and helping me get some progress on my Aeonic, which helped me finish my GK Aeonic while I was back. not to mention spending an absurd amount of gil to help me finish a >completely< useless Relic(Getting my Mandau the final non-augment step), he was just a genuinely nice person and I felt like a schmuck accepting so much free assistance from him and not being able to help him or return the favor at all, he's a dying breed that for sure.

I think the only thing that'll get me to actually come back now is if they finally addressed Relics being fucking worthless paper weights and at least made them mildly useful as anything but a mannequin prop. They don't need to be #1 but damn, "useable" would be a nice step.

So I was making an o~utline today for the recording of our next podcast episode tonight. It was centered on the idea of progression because its currently the free campaign. Where the world of Vana'diel is inundated with the "WUT DO?!" questions. I spent more time on it than any other outline in 34 episodes thus far. Where I wrote it from the perspective of addressing the woes of forging a path for yourself as a solo-ish player striving to reach the promised land of endgame and min-maxing. Even then it didn't feel done though because its too big of a bite to chew.

So when I sat down with Fox for our preshow for the usual 15 to 30 to 60 or so minutes of discussing what we are going to do, and other stuff. It became entirely apparent that I was hoist with my own petard. Where I put myself in that box of how I see new players isolated from endgame and opportunity by a sea of gear and knowledge. Which can of course just arrogantly be closed if only information and advice is handed down.

However, after vetting it over with Fox it became entirely apparently that I was just focusing on an over generalized gear progression. Which not only can't be applied to all jobs for obvious reasons, but because progression isn't just gear. That isn't progression, and it isn't what the game is even about, IMO. Gear is the vehicle for experiencing what is ultimately a very personal, but immensely unique social game and journey. One where you aren't bereft of its experiences and what it has to offer because you aren't in the same place others are; whom are perceived to be some lofty superior goal.

That is very likely the incorrect usage whom and semicolon. Of which I have never cared to properly educate myself on the rules of for either despite liking their usage.

At any rate, the takeaway from my initial failure to see my folly before saying, "Yeah, lets reschedule this, I don't want to make this poorly done." Is that if you are apprehensive about getting into the game because you feel your gear is dated or not caught up or because a certain thing you are partial to isn't the way you want it to be. Say, Mandau sucks (for what it is). Then you aren't really getting into the game.

This goes for anyone too who (not whom, naturally) might hold reservations. Yeah, you can get sucked into sitting in town and thinking that some of the people saying shit should have their fingers run through a meat grinder. So that they never may so again grace the eyes of others with their subpar trolling of yelling verses from the bible or making a mule named "Donaldjtrump" or "Joebidin". However, if you don't just sit in town then you can really make this game more of what you want it to be. In the case of veterans such as yourself, you can make it more of the game you look back so fondly on.

[Karbuncle]

So I was making an o~utline today for the recording of our next podcast episode tonight. It was centered on the idea of progression because its currently the free campaign. Where the world of Vana'diel is inundated with the "WUT DO?!" questions. I spent more time on it than any other outline in 34 episodes thus far. Where I wrote it from the perspective of addressing the woes of forging a path for yourself as a solo-ish player striving to reach the promised land of endgame and min-maxing. Even then it didn't feel done though because its too big of a bite to chew.

So when I sat down with Fox for our preshow for the usual 15 to 30 to 60 or so minutes of discussing what we are going to do, and other stuff. It became entirely apparent that I was hoist with my own petard. Where I put myself in that box of how I see new players isolated from endgame and opportunity by a sea of gear and knowledge. Which can of course just arrogantly be closed if only information and advice is handed down.

However, after vetting it over with Fox it became entirely apparently that I was just focusing on an over generalized gear progression. Which not only can't be applied to all jobs for obvious reasons, but because progression isn't just gear. That isn't progression, and it isn't what the game is even about, IMO. Gear is the vehicle for experiencing what is ultimately a very personal, but immensely unique social game and journey. One where you aren't bereft of its experiences and what it has to offer because you aren't in the same place others are; whom are perceived to be some lofty superior goal.

That is very likely the incorrect usage whom and semicolon. Of which I have never cared to properly educate myself on the rules of for either despite liking their usage.

At any rate, the takeaway from my initial failure to see my folly before saying, "Yeah, lets reschedule this, I don't want to make this poorly done." Is that if you are apprehensive about getting into the game because you feel your gear is dated or not caught up or because a certain thing you are partial to isn't the way you want it to be. Say, Mandau sucks (for what it is). Then you aren't really getting into the game.

This goes for anyone too who (not whom, naturally) might hold reservations. Yeah, you can get sucked into sitting in town and thinking that some of the people saying shit should have their fingers run through a meat grinder. So that they never may so again grace the eyes of others with their subpar trolling of yelling verses from the bible or making a mule named "Donaldjtrump" or "Joebidin". However, if you don't just sit in town then you can really make this game more of what you want it to be. In the case of veterans such as yourself, you can make it more of the game you look back so fondly on.

Mandau being shit is more of a meme to me at this point, I know I'm being dramatic about it but I wasn't THAT serious about it being a stopping point to me logging in anymore. I know its shit, but I still love it, I still have it on my /lockstyle sets, but its one of those things I think about a lot and laugh at. Frankly I had infinitely more fun with the Savage Blade and Asuran Fists weapons on THF than I've had in a long time even if the damage was disappointing lol.

When I came back, for the month or so last time I logged in (Can probably get a rough date from my last XIAH transaction), I did get a lot done, I had a "Get started doing shit" mindset, both me and my brother... and thanks to the one gentleman i brought up who helped, we managed to get a lot of stuff done. I completed a lot of the Escha-Sky stuff, got several pieces of the Reseinjima augmentable gear, I got an Aeonic GK through a little help from him and a lot of shouting and PUG grouping for the Reisenjima stuff he couldnt solo, I got the Savage Blade and Evisceration Glowy-weapons, as well as finished a few of my Job-Capes from that Mhaura event thing, and I did have a fuckload of fun Low-man doing some of the Escha-Sky NMs for it, however had it not been for the stroke of luck of this man finding me, not sure if I'd of gotten any of that done.

I'm sorry if I didn't express clearly enough, I had fun, goals, ambitions, motivations for content I wanted to tackle... for about 2 weeks. Once I got to a point where it was "Daily/3day lockouts, Linkshell only" content I hit that wall again, and its a personal wall through no fault of XI, and its a wall that works for a LOT of people who have been doing the "Linkshell Job Shifts" since 2002 or whatever, even after I found Linkshells willing to accept me (Mostly as a TH whore, mind you, glad I picked THF as my job day 1), I realized that kind of shit wasn't fun for me 15 years ago and its not any more fun for me now. The XI i enjoyed back then is a lot different than the one most of you enjoyed. Though I will admit to enjoying Dynamis a lot more now than I did back then, even if I'm still in the straggler party with no buffs. Some things never change lol.

For what its worth, I didn't just die on THF Hill, I had BRD but only 3 song, I got GEO to 900+Skill and got the +5 (or what is +7? +3?) Geo enhancing bell so my GEO was ACCEPTABLE enough to be used in content, and as mentioned i leveled SAM and went for the Aeonic GK cause SAM is a pretty amazing DPS now-adays. I had PLD with Aegis and while it wasn't dog-shit it sure as shit wasnt great either, I did tank that Reisinjima mandragora for about 40 seconds after Invincible wore off, which was just enough time to secure the kill and win... so that felt good. I had BST but I'm to learn they fell out of rotation when SMN became OPAF, so I tried to work on my Summoner but frankly that task was too great and required a lot of JP and great gear, and the JP grind was quite frankly, ball numbingly slow and miserable even with a fast group, but I still tried to join any SMN AoE Burns whenever I could find them. So besides that, I did try to get into the groove and get things going, but as i said, about 2 weeks of fun.

After which I really was at the mercy of Asura for any content not locked behind a daily/3week thing I had a Linkshell for. I can't sit here and tell you an intensely detailed forecast of Asura's social infrastructure right now or any some such waxing on about, but I can tell you even though I had goals and motivation, I spent at least 50% of my time sitting in town either shouting and failing to find a group to get started, or watching the Selling-shouts go by and wondering what I could do other than sitting in town watching the selling shouts go by.

I did occasionally fill the void by doing stuff I used to do back in the 75 era, roaming around zones, hunting weird or obscure NMs... or by trying my hand at soloing/low-manning some specific BCNMS or NNI depending on which campaigns were currently in progress, UNM as well, I really loved UNMs TBH, I wish more of them had useful drops when I played (They added Augments to them, not sure how that ended up). I don't think my personal disinterest and fading motivation from XI is entirely XI's fault, more that the game has simply evolved to a point where I don't recognize it anymore. I can't look at gear and determine if its good or not because theres so so so so many pieces of 119 gear now that its all a blur, and theres are several "tiers" of 119 gear now as well, with entry level, low tier, mid tier, good tier, god tier, etc.

quick change of subject, making gil was always a problem for me, I could make "enough" to get by, but never enough to feel i could justify buying a spot in a JP party or anything. I did spend some time trying to finish my Woodworking, starting working on the Woodworking shield too, Shield only ever hit stage 2, but I did get my Woodworking over 100 if I'm not mistaken.

I'm rambling here, but I appreciate what you had to say and it got me thinking about the good and bad times I had, its easy to remember the hours you spend sitting in town hoping to see something interesting to do because you've either finished your goals, ran out of ideas, waiting for people to log in or are just bored... but there was enjoyable aspects to the time I spent when I returned. I just don't know how you people stay permanently subscribed, it often feels like I quickly run out of ideas and content to do thats "Within my reach".

Really enjoyed the Odin fight though, I seriously appreciated whenever they added end-game content that Thief could affect cause at least then it meant I might be able to slide in, undergeared, as a token THwhore.

Edit: OH, and I spent a FUCKLOAD of time in Monstrosity, that shit is downright fun as fuck, really bummed they abandoned it, I'd really loved if they just added in all the Monster families like Dragon. I loved unlocking new monsters and figuring out which levels I needed for which to unlock what and all that stuff. So ... yah... fucking loved Monstrosity.

[Scythiroth]

Edit: OH, and I spent a FUCKLOAD of time in Monstrosity, that shit is downright fun as fuck, really bummed they abandoned it, I'd really loved if they just added in all the Monster families like Dragon. I loved unlocking new monsters and figuring out which levels I needed for which to unlock what and all that stuff. So ... yah... fucking loved Monstrosity.

This is the one thing I miss the most about FF11. I really wish it would come to FF14 since it has clearly been abandoned in FF11.

[arus2001]

I'd just say there's a bit of over-complicating on what XI or even MMOs are.

- Gear, levels, merits, CP/JP, and knowing your job/events are all aspects of progression.
- True solo (no multi-boxing) has its limits with the above, be it by job choice or overall difficulty.
- Finding a good group/linkshell/guild is luck. The player may take various steps to better help them find one that works, but if your schedule doesn't mesh with their prime times, they've willingly closed themselves off to new blood, don't want people of your job(s), only want your job(s) if you have hard to get gear, etc., then there's not a whole lot you can do. And even if you do join one, there's still that feeling out process where a few weeks in you find out you're not a good fit for whatever reason and the process begins anew, nevermind those who legit don't help new people because they're new and think you'll just bounce when you get something.
- XI isn't getting the attention it needs from SE to better assure long-term interest. That "Beat the Game" feeling is real and for some, helping others do the same isn't enough of a motivator.
- Some people just plain suck for whatever reason and are not fun to be around.

Obviously, there's also a lot we can believe SE should or shouldn't do for the sake of the game. Improving jobs and gear has always been one of the usual suspects of critique. I'd go so far as to say they need to make world transfers free, drop the $1/char tax, and actually get some cross-server tech in to potentially alleviate the Asura/Dead Server situation. Better in-game group finding tools should also come of it. It's probably safe to say they could also do more about botting/RMT. Without stuff like that, on top of new content, it shouldn't be hard to see why people who played 5-10 years ago may not see much to stick around with on a return or have a hard time suggesting the game to legitimate newbies. The population is top-heavy, and the game reflects that before even stepping into ye olde Retail vs. Classic debate, where with the latter, my above points still applied aside from JP/CP.

Collectively, it's just Old Game Pains to the letter, and competition exists where certain problems people may have with XI don't exist in more modern counterparts. For those who have played other things, it's not difficult to look back and see how certain aspects of XI were poorly designed or even outright toxic. And sure, it's easy to argue that if XI did XYZ, it wouldn't be XI anymore, but I feel like that tends to undersell all the lore and world building some of us came to enjoy over the years. That same fear of change is also a contributor the current stagnation people feel or even the one that existed prior to WotG's completion/Abyssea.

[Byrthnoth]

Monstrosity done right could have been amazing, though. Making players provide AI for your NMs as part of endgame would have been a masterstroke. Imagine if in XIV you can queue to raid or, for a substantial price to limit demand and make it extreme players only, queue to be a raid boss. Give the best gear and crap to the raid bosses if they wipe the alliance.

Monstrosity choked on the motivation component. I was happy to level crap up for the novelty, but there wasn't anything useful I could get from it.

[Karbuncle]

This is the one thing I miss the most about FF11. I really wish it would come to FF14 since it has clearly been abandoned in FF11.

If they added Monstrosity to FFXIV, it legitimately MIGHT get me back into XIV if it was handled well. I'm not 100% confident on that statement, but it'd certainly peak my interest. Its just a super bummer they 100% abandoned it on XI, I know XI has low staff and Monstrosity was nothing but a side-thing that, for the most part, "failed", but dang... just give us Partying/Loot Drops from enemies, that kind of stuff shouldn't require much extra work, and its not like getting loot in them old zones would break anything these days... I understand more monster families would be much more difficult but Party/Loot couldn't take that much right? Then again this is XI Spaghetti code.

Monstrosity done right could have been amazing, though. Making players provide AI for your NMs as part of endgame would have been a masterstroke. Imagine if in XIV you can queue to raid or, for a substantial price to limit demand and make it extreme players only, queue to be a raid boss. Give the best gear and crap to the raid bosses if they wipe the alliance.

Monstrosity choked on the motivation component. I was happy to level crap up for the novelty, but there wasn't anything useful I could get from it.

I mean, same. I leveled it up for novelty and the fact is was hands down the most fun I had in a long long time in XI... just walking around areas as a Sandworm or Behemoth was a very childlike feeling of joy lol. I do think it could have been something amazing, but I'm sure they were just terrified of the Win-trading aspect of it, but still, I think there was promise in the idea regardless. Shame it released around the same time XI began to get a lot less love from SE.

[Anoat]

One time I was watching a guy stream his return to FFXI after several years and he was running around Gustaberg when a guy doing Monstrosity as a Behemoth ran up to him and the streamer freaked out thinking he was getting attacked by a new NM.

[Karbuncle]

I used to run around Gustaberg as HNMs... part of me wishes I was that Behemoth.