Street Fighter V AE: CHAMPION EDITION

[Deejay]

In SF5, you get one wrong guess and you're done.

That is literally his point. Often times, parry attempts are guesses/reads. If you're wrong, you lose some life. The difference in V is that Capcom dialed up the amount of damage you gain/lose from a single guess. This makes luck a larger determining factor in the outcome of matches. More Luck makes the game more appealing to spectators but shitty for everyone else.

Pairing this design choice with a stupid easy combo system, now means that everyone is doing the ridiculous damage when they're rewarded for correct guesses. Thus, skill matters less and luck matters more which is terrible for a game that is trying to grow a competitive audience. This problem is unique to V because it was inherently designed to function this way.

[Xno Kappa]

Core A Gaming had a lovely analysis on why SFV is trash. I love to revisit it every so often just for the luls

https://youtu.be/iSgA_nK_w3A


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While I agree with the general sentiment of the video, there's a lot of rosy nostalgia goggles going on here. Everyone is pretending SF3 wasn't some obscure entry that nobody touched. As if Moment #37 happened in 1997 and not in 2004 lol. Seven years later.

I wasn't a big 3S player and neither were many others in NYC because nobody touched that shit and played the likes of CvS2 or MvC2. It's crazy how this fact is always glossed over because of the Daigo parry.

[Spider-Dan]

That is literally his point. Often times, parry attempts are guesses/reads. If you're wrong, you lose some life. The difference in V is that Capcom dialed up the amount of damage you gain/lose from a single guess.

What are you talking about? That video is about nothing of the sort. He's literally complaining that Chun's super is TOO EASY to parry in 5 ("I can parry the whole super by mashing randomly or tapping a merengue beat"), and that this is a consequence of dumbing the game down.

Talking about how much life you lose on a wrong parry guess doesn't even make sense in the context of moment #37, where Daigo had no remaining life anyway.

[Deejay]

Do I have to explain your own comments to you? You were the one who said he failed to parry 7 times before that moment. We both agree that a single guess in SF5 will kill you. The video is saying that moment 37 would never happen in V because
A: You don't have to guess wrong 7 times to lose a match, just once
B: Nothing requires the amount of skill as the Daigo parry, which means come backs will never be exciting when literally everyone can do them

[Lokus]

You get plenty of guesses in SFV though. The times when you basically live or die on a guess happens towards the end of a round when the opponent is fully stocked and even then it's 3 guesses usually. Combo into mixup into combo into mixup into stun then gg.

There is no doubt that SFV lowered the skill ceiling for most of the cast but it ultimately doesn't seem to matter that "everyone can do it" when the top players are still the usual suspects with some newcomers joining the mix. SFV is just more stressful cause more people are dangerous.

[Nitsuki]

ITT: Lucavi is talking to himself, insults everyone and randomly mentions 3rd Strike.

Also ITT: Spider-Dan still makes no sense

I hope the evo thread or the gg thread gets this much attention this coming thursday.

[Xno Kappa]

ITT: Lucavi is talking to himself, insults everyone and randomly mentions 3rd Strike.

Also ITT: Spider-Dan still makes no sense

I hope the evo thread or the gg thread gets this much attention this coming thursday.

I’ve mained Axl since 3S. You’re dead kiddo.

[Lokus]

Speaking of, isn't an Evo announcement usually planned towards the end of Feb? Canons have gone silent since ole Joey got the boot. It's pretty much guaranteed that nothing is happening this year anyway.

Also, Bridget or riot.

[Spider-Dan]

Do I have to explain your own comments to you? You were the one who said he failed to parry 7 times before that moment.

Yes, I said that, in rebuttal to a video that claims that parrying her super is so easy you can do it with random mashing. Nowhere in the video is it mentioned that Daigo got a bunch of free guesses; instead, it's "look at how hard and skillful this was in SF3, and how brainless it is in SF5."

We both agree that a single guess in SF5 will kill you.

Cool, but that's NOT what the video is saying. It's saying moment 37 would be meaningless in 5 because of how easy it would be to accomplish, when the opposite is true.

[Deejay]

There is no doubt that SFV lowered the skill ceiling for most of the cast but it ultimately doesn't seem to matter that "everyone can do it" when the top players are still the usual suspects with some newcomers joining the mix. SFV is just more stressful cause more people are dangerous.

Luck and skill are not mutually exclusive. You can be skilled in a game that unapologetically rewards luck over skill. I think most competitive players groan specifically about the imbalance of luck vs. skill in V, because it makes the game not as fun to play or watch in comparison to its predecessors.

[Deejay]

Cool, but that's NOT what the video is saying. It's saying moment 37 would be meaningless in 5 because of how easy it would be to accomplish, when the opposite is true.

It's not though. Comebacks happen in V an no one cares because comebacks are easy to pull off in V. LITERAL QUITE FROM HIS VIDEO:

This why moment 37 is so important to the fighting game community. The excitement you hear in this video isn't because there was a comeback, it was because the comeback felt impossible. Making it easy so anyone can be the next 'diego' profoundly misunderstands what makes street fighter exciting.

[Nitsuki]

I’ve mained Axl since 3S. You’re dead kiddo.

Yea? I’ve mained May since Alpha 3!

[Lucavi]

You're opinions of jp fighting devs are a fucking dumpster fire. How do you fucking ignore the lat 18 months of jp devs jumping on rollback or MvCI basically fixing all of the problems with Vs netcode?

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Only because they HAD to, because their precious Arcade scene was taken from them from COVID. Every JP game that launched prior to 2020 had absolute dog-shit netcode going back 10 years because it was never a problem for them, a country the size of a mote of dust when compared to the world.

Fighting games as a whole have had unarguably the worst netcode out of any online gaming genre, but yeah, because Japan started to work on it after they too are stuck in their homes, all is fucking well and dandy. All is forgiven! Decent netcode will be bog-standard from every Japanese fighting game from now on!

What tripe.

[Spider-Dan]

Part of the disconnect here is that you are conflating "general comebacks" - which are obviously going to be easier in games with comeback mechanics, like 4 and 5, than in games without them, like 2 and 3 - with the specific bad and irrelevant example of moment 37; an example which is prominently cited in said video.

So:

- Are comebacks generally "easier" in 5? Sure, for many reasons that have little to do with player skill and more to do with a revenge-type resource you can convert into extra damage
- Would a specific comeback similar to moment #37 be easier to pull off in SF5? Not really, because you only get one wrong parry guess and you're done

Core A Gaming decided to make a dumb video about how Capcom made recreating moment #37 in SF5 easy so anyone can be the next 'diego' because now you can parry SF5 Chun's super to the beat of the macarena, just to get cheap lulz and clicks from SF5 haters... when in reality the most difficult part (in either game) is parrying the first hit.

[Lokus]

Luck and skill are not mutually exclusive. You can be skilled in a game that unapologetically rewards luck over skill. I think most competitive players groan specifically about the imbalance of luck vs. skill in V, because it makes the game not as fun to play or watch in comparison to its predecessors.

The same competitors that bitched about ultras and x-factor? I def remember Flash and crew bitching about how scrubby SFIV was where you could get "randomed out" and this was at least up towards the end of AE2012.

Like I mentioned earlier, it's still the usual suspects at the top and they are definitely not there by luck. I think you've overvalued luck when it comes to SFV much like how it was overvalued in SFIV for a while. If anything SFV needs the Vanilla to Super treatment of lowering overall damage and stun values.

[Deejay]

If anything SFV needs the Vanilla to Super treatment of lowering overall damage and stun values.

I said damage is too high which means one mistake can end a round. You reply by saying I overvalue luck and the damage values should go down.

soyouagree.jpg

[Lokus]

Multiple mistakes end rounds, not one. They just happen in quick succession.

[Lokus]

I take my previous comment back, damage is fine even though V-trigger can get a bit nutty on certain characters when they got all the resources to go that nutty.

[6souls]

[Lucavi]

I like his new Hisshou Buraiken. Looks... somewhat realistic?