2018 MMA Thread - Sweaty Dick Punching Enthusiasts Enter Here

[Rhyis.]

Can't have the bread winners get busted yo.

[Rhyis.]

Take notice that Conor never got busted for coke despite supposedly being in the program throughout his entire hiatus

[Andalusian girls]

'everyone is on steroids!!' is lazy reductive bullshit. look at sports that had periods of very lax testing and then periods of stringent testing and you'll see a fuckin sea change in physiques and performances from the era where most everyone was on steroids yeah to an era where they obviously weren't in the same way. look at Pride guys like Wanderlei or HGH wonderboys like Vitor before USADA and compare them when they were juiced to the fucking gills to their more modern UFC performances where they looked human, and performed like they were underwater. look at the giant headed baseball freaks of the late 90s and early 2000s knocking in 70 dongs a year and compare it to normal-headed dudes struggling to win the homerun record with 40 now.

more guys use than the public is aware of or comfortable with sure, some of the most corrupt sports like cycling even hit near 100% usage rates before they got cracked down on, but passing off the 'everyone uses' cynicism as wisdom is tired.

[Rhyis.]

Vitor took steroids in PRIDE and got busted up on the regular mang. People overvalue that shit.

[Andalusian girls]

if you can't see the difference between roided Vitor and post-USADA Vitor you're blind

no one said it was going to win you all your fights

[Krandor]

look at the giant headed baseball freaks of the late 90s and early 2000s knocking in 70 dongs a year and compare it to normal-headed dudes struggling to win the homerun record with 40 now.

https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2018/9...home-run-chase

[Thunder]

My issue is the blatant bias towards certain fighters. Guys like Tom Lawlor get slapped with a two year suspension while Jones gets an all hands on deck of mental gymnastic coaches on how to spin it.

Jones got the two year suspension for his first testing positive of that metabolite as well. And then got the sentence reduced to 15 months by both mounting a defense in arbitration that concluded he must have ingested accidentally (unsure if tom lawlor did that or not, am sure frank did not - and frank mir had the exact same metabolite present in testing at similar amounts) and being a snitch for something else

The same long term metabolite is reappearing in all these latest tests, so their "double jeopardy"-esque rule is keeping jon from any additional reprimanding

[Krandor]

Who else has this double jeopardy rule applied to?

[Thunder]

Nobody has had a case of where it might apply like this afaik. We have the 1 experiment ever of oral turinabol and several other experiments of other chlorine based steroid studies (at least one on monkies, don't remember if humans were subjects of anything but the oral turinabol) that show the long term metabolite being excreted in urine for year(s) after with variable amounts as low as 9 pg and as high as 230 pg in between negative tests (should be pretty spot on with those numbers, going of memory though)

Could be that only these chlorine based steroids would have someone pop multiple times throughout the year(s) from a single ingestion a long time ago.

And experts are also saying that there can't be any performance enhancement from these long term metabolites present w/o short/mid term (or the parent compound for that matter) present (22 days for the mid term metabolite for oral turinabol iirc from the singe russian study). And jon was tested specifically multiple times between his initial hot test in august and this most recent one in december to try and catch the mid term metabolites.

For what it's worth, some kid from dana's contender series, grant dawson, was in some way "pardoned" for testing positive for the same m3 long term metabolite from oral turinabol when he entered USADA testing pool because they can't be sure he ingested it during the 12 month period prior to entering the pool (someone's only required to be clean for 12 months prior, apparently)

And I'm still pretty sure jon's a shitty person and used steroids before if only from that story of him hiding all day under the cage while the drug people waited and then the drug people tried to find remains of his urine under the cage day(s) after hearing that he was hiding under the cage for many hours (I said earlier in the thread USADA but the USADA program wasn't involved yet then, jon has never had a missed whereabouts, missed test, etc under USADA).

I swear I'm all aboard the jon hate train, but this info about him testing positive >half dozen times for this thing isn't adding anything to my booklet of why jon sucks. The best I could do is give a little side eye for why so many people/experts/organizations were involved with jon's testing positive, but it's the first time a UFC athlete has tested positive for the same thing multiple times, and it happens to be a thing that baseball has been supposedly dealing with for a while now and when labs were getting these results they already knew what sort of phenomena they were looking at. And of course would like to hear why it was determined in last year's arbitration that the court/experts were sure jon ingested it accidentally. Apparently that's all public info, but hell if I go and dig this up, I just wanna watch the fight at this point and forget all about it

[Rhyis.]

Barnett tested positive like 5 times for the same drug, which he claimed was tainted pills or whatever. He was given no reprieve.

[Krandor]

So just to be clear, they apparently invented this double jeopardy rule for Jon Jones for just this occasion.

And you don't see anything wrong with that?

[Thunder]

Hm? He tested once dec 9 2016 for ostarine. He proved in arbitration that it was an accidental ingestion from a contaminated supplement (jon just proved it was accidental, somehow) and got his sentence reduced to 15 months (just like jon, except jon also snitched on someone/some-things)

How does the double jeopardy rule apply to anyone else? The rule is in text and has been there since the beginning

[Xno Kappa]

Forgive me if it's been explained, how can they also accurately state the trace amounts were from his initial "accidental" ingestion? The fact they can say this while the test can't even reliably detect it consistently is another red flag in my opinion. Is this type of bend over backwards shit they're doing for Jones that makes me question the legitimacy of it all.

[Thunder]

It isn't that they can't reliably detect it, it's that the long term metabolite isn't always present in urine, and one negative test now doesn't mean you will not have a positive one later. The other chloride base steroid experiments show that reliably

And it isn't that they can accurately state the long term metabolites tested for now were definitively from his initial "accidental" ingestion, but instead it's the fact they can't prove it wasn't from the initial ingestion (only way to better prove otherwise would be to have jones tested every 22 days for the mid term metabolite, but afaik he was only tested that frequently after the positive in august). They can say with better certainty that he hasn't ingested it in between august's positive and december's positive (and the positives/negatives in between)

[Xno Kappa]

So does he seemingly get a lifetime pass for residual amounts now? Because essentially his argument is always going to be from that initial "accidental" ingestion if they can't build a coherent timeframe of usage.

[Thunder]

For that specific longterm metabolite for oral turinabol, yeah, that seems to be the case. From what I gather they'll have to test him every 22 days to try and catch the mid term metabolite (and even that timeframe is only from 1 experiment done pretty much illegally, although it is still peer reviewed and published)


Anyone who's tested positive for any chlorine based steroid as well, it seems. Moving forward, like that grant dawson kid, it seems anyone testing positive for any chlorine based steroid's long term metabolites should be able to make a case of ingestion prior to entering USADA testing (or having usada make the case for them, like they did with grant) and be off relatively free (grant can't fight for some time). Current fighters will still, like jones, frank, josh, everyone else, get the initial 2 years or 15 months if they prove it was accidental and then be in the same position for all long term metabolite positives there after (if it was a chlorine based steroid, anyway, josh's wasn't btw)

Edit: until of course we get long term experiments that say definitively after x amount of months/years the long term metabolite is gone. Until then it doesn't seem to be possible to confirm additional ingestion by current methods if all we're getting is these positives

[Xno Kappa]

So to disregard the Jones drama for a second. This is a pretty fun looking card lol. I had absolutely no idea BJ Penn was fighting until like 20 minutes ago.

[Krandor]

At this point BJ fighting isn't something to be excited about sadly.

Ever since his first fight with Frankie 8(!) years ago he's been a shell of what he was, and has pretty much looked like garbage since unretiring.

[Gryffes]

Dana was shitting on the Tito/Chuck fight but then lets BJ Penn on a card.... like cmon.

[Rhyis.]

He's pushed the corpse of a ton of fighters into a cage and loved every minute of it. He treats Chuck differently.