Meta Mistake - Social Media Is Sucio

[thetruepandagod]

imagine being 15yrs old and dealing with this every time ur trying to get more people in ur linkshell to bot and spread out times. i never had a chance to not be tired of everything

[Fondue]

but (with 0 proof) he was consistently a top performer!

[Fondue]

the order you see spells in the chat log means nothing gred

[Gredival]

the order you see spells in the chat log means nothing gred

The actual amount of times I claimed was equal or better to any botter in the shell. The collective amount of times the non-botters in the shell claimed was no less than 10% under the timers the botters did.

I've backed all of that up with actual screenshots and data points.

Any marginal difference between my actual contribution and what my contribution could have been if I botted was more than outweighed by the fact that I literally restructured my life to be available 24/7, 365 days a week for literally every and any HNM. The botters were lazier than me. They went to sleep after leaving their toons up to watch mobs or claim while they weren't there; I woke myself up every 30 mins or every hour to physically check the mobs and be available for fights.

[Spicyryan]

My assessment and valuation of XI will never change because it is founded in deep rooted values and unchangeable beliefs. Just like how you will always blame the west because you are incapable of a shred of rationality or intellectual consistency, for me 75 cap XI will always be the most perfect realization of the ideal design (horizonal progression over time with vertical tiers of gear based on content type with server limited world spawns being the top tier)

That being said, I could be easily be swayed as to the truth value of smaller level claims about the way XI operated. I already pointed out several reasons why my beliefs about XI's clear superiority wouldn't be changed even if boting was a bigger issue than I have framed it.

Just like in real life, the perfect shouldn't be the enemy of the good. XI was as close to perfect as we have ever seen; if the only legitimate criticism is about theoretical flaws that it's competition fixed by discarding the fundamentally good parts of it's end game design, then XI is still clearly the best MMO ever.

It's clear at this point I'm interpreting the issue as a mathematically different situation. Everyone else sees botting vs. manual claims as two simple slopes where Y (overall claim chance) increases at a constant rate as X increases (number of claimers). I see manual claims as a simple slope and botting as an exponential curve. In both situations, botting always gives an advantage (the area bounded between the two slopes or between the slope and the curve), but the conditions for when that advantage becomes "significant" changes based on whether you think even distributions give consistent or exponential advantages.

So we either need someone with advanced statistical knowledge who can explain this or someone with a CS degree who can code something to simulate the difference between even distributions vs random ones over time.

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I blame the West for things because they are blatantly responsible for oppression, suppression, exploitation, and violence against others in order to better protect their position or perceived interests. Your insistence on casting old XI as something it objectively was not beyond circular your own idealism. Is painted in your usual stone cold fervor. Except this time mathematics is being co-opted to reassure yourself. Fawning over it all as "as close to perfect as we have ever seen" is nothing less than pathetic, and beyond worth reasoning with. Bots aren't the only flaw with your assertion of it being some perfect meritocracy, but once again it is the silliest debate on here in awhile.

Youre gonna have to break that down into 3 AG type posts if you think anyone reading 5 paragraphs my guy.

Your insistence on taking 1-3 sentences with a line break between them to be some mass of multiple paragraphs. Shows that even a fortune cookie be too much text for you. "YO, I AINT GOT TIME FOR THIS SNAPPLE CAP!" All while posting on a fucking forum nonetheless.

[Krandor]

I blame the West for things because they are blatantly responsible for oppression, suppression, exploitation, and violence against others in order to better protect their position or perceived interests.

It's a good thing stuff like this never happens in China, Russia, Middle Eastern countries, or anywhere else in the world.

[Mrbeansman]

I blame the West for things because they are blatantly responsible for oppression, suppression, exploitation, and violence against others in order to better protect their position or perceived interests.

Okay I genuinely want to know why this is uniquely terrible when the west does it becasue Russia and China or any world power cannot throw stones in this department.

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[Gredival]

So this is how I envisioned it. In everyone else's mind, we are in the left situation. I think we are in the right.

Gold is the base for a true random distribution.

In most people's minds, the actual advantage given per user by botting is constant and accumulates at a steady rate. The actual advantage we don't know determines how severe the slope is (blue being a large advantage and red being the least) and thus determines the net advantage for the group (lined area for red, X'd area for green)

I think we're in an exponential curve. Which means there's a requisite sweet spot to hit where the difference becomes significant and does so very fast.

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[Mrbeansman]

Also everytime Gred talks about kings I'm glad I spent my time in game making money to buy shit from shells rather then spending over a third of every day twilding my thumbs at camps.

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[Spicyryan]

It's a good thing stuff like this never happens in China, Russia, Middle Eastern countries, or anywhere else in the world.

Yeah, the prison system in the US is clearly beyond repute and any form of equivalency. Remember when "Middle Eastern countries" invaded Afghanistan for 20 years while also destroying Iraq, Libya, etc? Just stop it.

Iran sells drones to Russia and everyone goes nuts. US gives weapons to Saudi Arabia to use against Yemen among a long list, and no one should even place them in the same category because might makes right.

[Byrthnoth]

No offense Gred but you already had someone who solves optimization problems for a living and has unfortunately extreme subject matter expertise with FFXI explain to you how it works.

(It was me.)

(I also do not regret buying N.Head and getting everything else from Odin)

[Spicyryan]

Okay I genuinely want to know why this is uniquely terrible when the west does it becasue Russia and China or any world power cannot throw stones in this department.

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Would have to have the foggiest understanding of politics beyond a middle school level of "US good, them bad" and US state media. Which is a put down because it is just obnoxious to read: "Yeah, I don't know shit, so like, what you said doesn't matter, catch me up everything so I can disagree already."

Also everytime Gred talks about kings I'm glad I spent my time in game making money to buy shit from shells rather then spending over a third of every day twilding my thumbs at camps.

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How unsurprising.

No offense Gred but you already had someone who solves optimization problems for a living and has unfortunately extreme subject matter expertise with FFXI explain to you how it works.

(It was me.)

(I also do not regret buying N.Head and getting everything else from Odin)

Yeah, but it is his way or the highway. As an incredibly stubborn person, even I find this "XI was perfect, math says so" to be sociopathically over the top.

[Mertron]

i played on ps2 which made me better at ffxi than all you cheaters

[Spicyryan]

i played on ps2 which made me better at ffxi than all you cheaters

PS2 is the embodiment of meritocracy, and the closest to perfect we have ever seen.

[archibaldcrane]

Lol

https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/1...KztAzabww&s=19

[Yabby]

Well... guess I'm not surprised...

[archibaldcrane]

Incredible

https://twitter.com/Esqueer_/status/...TnSNgjoZw&s=19

https://twitter.com/Esqueer_/status/...oce6_Bnug&s=19

[6souls]

Incredible

[Andalusian girls]

It's a good thing stuff like this never happens in China, Russia, Middle Eastern countries, or anywhere else in the world.

the Western World is definitely the worst except for all the others

[Tyche]

Incredible

https://twitter.com/Esqueer_/status/...TnSNgjoZw&s=19

https://twitter.com/Esqueer_/status/...oce6_Bnug&s=19

Absolutely unbelievable. Couldn't script this shit.