New California Republic

[Ksandra]

Yeah but you asked that question after reading my edited response.

Wat. You are confusing me. I never asked a question. And my military budget comment was before you edited.


That's why you don't edit posts. Just double post.

[Andalusian girls]

did i do that right 4chan lads

oh and stats

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-educ...t-study-shows/

The United States spent more than $11,000 per elementary student in 2010 and more than $12,000 per high school student. When researchers factored in the cost for programs after high school education such as college or vocational training, the United States spent $15,171 on each young person in the system — more than any other nation covered in the report.

That sum inched past some developed countries and far surpassed others. Switzerland's total spending per student was $14,922 while Mexico averaged $2,993 in 2010. The average OECD nation spent $9,313 per young person.

As a share of its economy, the United States spent more than the average country in the survey. In 2010, the United States spent 7.3 percent of its gross domestic product on education, compared with the 6.3 percent average of other OECD countries. Denmark topped the list on that measure with 8 percent of its gross domestic product going toward education.

[Zealot]

What qualifies as education spending by the rubric they're using?

[Ksandra]

I see which question you are referring to, but I clarified that didn't mean I wasn't blaming conservatives for military budgets.

[Ksandra]

U.S. spends more than any other nation on student education

U.S. students score lower than many other nations in international testing

mismanagement, waste, the system's structure not the problem

only solution spend more on students

mfw

I don't think you are completely wrong, but often when people compare us to other countries they ignore the fact that those tests are skewed.


Many of the "top tier" countries don't have their students with special needs take their tests. Hell, some don't even let children with special needs go to school period.

Iirc, India only has selected students take their tests, too.



I'm not saying we are where we should be regarding education (far from it), just that be careful about comparing us to the rest of the world.

[archibaldcrane]

U.S. spends more than any other nation on student education

U.S. students score lower than many other nations in international testing

mismanagement, waste, the system's structure not the problem

only solution spend more on students

mfw

We should spend more on a comprehensive social safety net and eliminate child poverty if we want our children to compete with those from northern and western European nations.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[BaneTheBrawler]

The desire to curb waste and abuse is literally probably the number one creator of waste and abuse, like how the way medicaid works ends up keeps people sick longer. Or how we could save money by just giving homeless people housing, but we're opposed to it on the "No free shit for lazy people" principle.

fun fact: in order to get financial assistance beyond my disability, i can't earn above a certain (extremely low- part time at minimum wage meets it) threshold/mo, and can't have more than 2k in liquid assets. this includes savings accounts. so my choices are A: cut my income in half or B: have a savings account



my 401k counts as assets tho so i dont get a choice anymore. but the point is, the system actively encourages financial irresponsibility. and when shit hits the fan, where does a guy with no savings turn? credit.

just the way the oligarchs like it.

[Gredival]

What qualifies as education spending by the rubric they're using?

And is it adjusted for relative cost of living and inflation? Because sure the Philippines may spend 1/5th of what we do but a dollar goes 10x farther there.

I don't doubt there are tons of waste and inefficiency is schools (precisely why I oppose securitization measures), but identifying it and getting rid of it is a yuge endeavor. Recognition of the fact the system has fat to cut does not magically solve the fact that we have schools using 20 year old text books.

This is especially problematic when schools feel compelled to put up meaningless results - like increases in test scores - that don't actually correlate to true educational value. Meanwhile things that actually teach life skills - like debate teams - get their funding cut.

[Gredival]

fun fact: in order to get financial assistance beyond my disability, i can't earn above a certain (extremely low- part time at minimum wage meets it) threshold/mo, and can't have more than 2k in liquid assets. this includes savings accounts. so my choices are A: cut my income in half or B: have a savings account



my 401k counts as assets tho so i dont get a choice anymore. but the point is, the system actively encourages financial irresponsibility. and when shit hits the fan, where does a guy with no savings turn? credit.

just the way the oligarchs like it.

Everyone hates bureaucrats, but really that's the solution. You need well trained and intelligent case workers who are empowered to make decisions rather than peons who just follow rubricks and could be replaced by automation.

Ironically it's similar to how education tends to push away a lot of well-qualified (i.e. over-qualified) teachers because they eventually just get tired of struggling against a system that is built to maintain a status quo by shuffling kids along.

[dasva]

Anecdote and all by a few years ago a K-3 school here spent 12 million on 4 new portable buildings. There is meaningful waste and likely graft that isn't exactly hard to find to.

[Gredival]

The LAUSD wasted millions on getting ipads that sat and did nothing because the schools weren't ready to switch to a digital learning model, which is nothing short of a paradigm shift in the way classes are taught and not simply handing kids an ipad. But just having the things made it look like these schools were "digitally" prepared.

(Generally speaking part of the problem with digital learning is resistance from older teachers who feel like the goal of digital learning is to replace them.)

[Ksandra]

Anecdote and all by a few years ago a K-3 school here spent 12 million on 4 new portable buildings. There is meaningful waste and likely graft that isn't exactly hard to find to.

Did it help reduce smaller class sizes? If not: wasteful, if so: some merit to it.


I've mentioned this to people before but part of the reason that growing populated areas have an issue with class sizes has less to do with teacher shortages, and more to do with having no space to put the kids (which in turn leads to teacher shortages, as they don't want to work there).

LAUSD pays their teachers way above the norm, yet the turn over rate is extremely high. Part of that has to do with shoving 40 kids into a classroom designed for 20.


Note: Not advocating portables over building new schools, just that portables end up costing less than a new school and I can see why schools may need them.

[dasva]

Did it help reduce smaller class sizes? If not: wasteful, if so: some merit to it.


I've mentioned this to people before but part of the reason that growing populated areas have an issue with class sizes has less to do with teacher shortages, and more to do with having no space to put the kids (which in turn leads to teacher shortages, as they don't want to work there).

Note: Not advocating portables over building new schools, just that portables end up costing less than a new school and I can see why schools may need them.

I think you missed the dollar amount there lol.

The problem isn't necessarily expanding as it can be useful or needed. It's spending $3 million for a portable building. To put in perspective a daycare somehow has permission to have similar sized building on the corner of that school. You think a day care spent even 5% of that?

Plus class size is such a mixed bag on helpfulness.

[Ksandra]

The LAUSD wasted millions on getting ipads that sat and did nothing because the schools weren't ready to switch to a digital learning model, which is nothing short of a paradigm shift in the way classes are taught and not simply handing kids an ipad. But just having the things made it look like these schools were "digitally" prepared.

(Generally speaking part of the problem with digital learning is resistance from older teachers who feel like the goal of digital learning is to replace them.)

Ipads are awful in schools imo, and worse: smart boards.

Our school has smart boards in every room, none used (not even by me who uses every technology tool I can, and I'm responsible for teaching others).

We had a few sets of iPads and those were awful, too, for an English classroom. Hard to type papers on them, and the keyboards they got to go with them never work.

Now we are a 1-to-1 chromebook school, and it has been a night and day difference. Absolutely love it, and I got so much more valuable work done this year than in the past.


I think we do need to accept that these tools will come in for the younger teachers and will slowly spread as you get even more young teachers coming in. But for sure, they need to focus on tools teachers can actually use vs. tools that look cool.

I kinda gave up trying to teach some of the older teachers stuff to do on the chromebooks. Though one older teacher is really adamant about using it (which si great!), even if she has to write everything down several times to get it.

[Gredival]

Also if we're talking about paying teachers more like other countries do, people have to realize that comes with culling the herd. I'm sure there are some fantastic older teachers (some of my favorite teachers are still at the HS I coach mock trial and debate for) but many of the older bunch are set in their ways because they are phoning it in and making egregious amounts of money for doing so.

[Ksandra]

I think you missed the dollar amount there lol.

I didn't. My HS spent $12 building one building almost ten years ago.


Building is expensive.


And if you build a whole new school that means you add on: office staff, admin staff, lunch staff (if your schools have that still), etc. etc.


I don't know the average cost of a portable building though and how yours compares to the average cost. Maybe I'm wrong there.

[dasva]

Also if we're talking about paying teachers more like other countries do, people have to realize that comes with culling the herd. I'm sure there are some fantastic older teachers (some of my favorite teachers are still at the HS I coach mock trial and debate for) but many of the older bunch are set in their ways because they are phoning it in and making egregious amounts of money for doing so.

Some don't even phone it in. Seem to remember a suit in California citing specific examples of teachers not showing up or sleeping in class but getting rid of them would be either impossible or take years and even more money the school doesn't have. On the other hand need to be a lot smarter with how cuts happen. I've known teachers that were far above the average at the school cut simply because of seniority.

[dasva]

I didn't. My HS spent $12 building one building almost ten years ago.


Building is expensive.

I don't know the average cost of a portable building though and how yours compares to the average cost. Maybe I'm wrong there.

Building a new building ≠ placing a portable building. Especially with schools and the extra coding going along with that. Even more so when you don't specify what kind of building. I'm guessing yours was significantly bigger than a small portable building

Here's lets put this in perspective. Right down the street from where I work has similar sized Manufactured homes for sale for about $100k. Also if you are wondering about set up if they had to do construction to get power over there etc nope. They were replacing old ones

[Ksandra]

Building a new building ≠ placing a portable building. Especially with schools and the extra coding going along with that. Even more so when you don't specify what kind of building. I'm guessing yours was significantly bigger than a small portable building

Here's lets put this in perspective. Right down the street from where I work has similar sized Manufactured homes for sale for about $100k. Also if you are wondering about set up if they had to do construction to get power over there etc nope. They were replacing old ones

Well yes, we're talking about 1 building for the cost 4 portables was my point. I don't know the size of the ones your schools ordered. What was their reasoning behind spending 4 mil per? Is that the going rate of portable classrooms? Keep in mind a portable classroom's layout is different than a mobile home. I don't know if there is some type of zoning issue with using a home as a classroom, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is. It's possible the companies gouge the prices on portables if that's the case. Also, did that price include the leveling of the portable and the setup?

[Ksandra]

Ok so I googled it, yes 4 mil is way over priced according to this site:

https://www.kompareit.com/business/o...room-cost.html


I have no idea how they could spend 4 mil. did they give any explanation as to how that could be possible? $200k vs. $4 mil is not even remotely close I suspect not all the funds went to the buildings.