PC Principal V: What The Fuck Am I Reading

[Gredival]

Fuck unlike Day Nynja was actually funny.

Nynja thought he was legitimately oppressed. While funny, that wasn't his intention

[Yuri-G]

I will indeed miss the way NynJa used to lose arguments while thinking he won them :/ it was special

[D44kpunk]

I will indeed miss the way NynJa used to lose arguments while thinking he won them :/ it was special

salodin does the exact same thing, he seems to realize it though eventually and then does this weird subject change or pivot while quoting whoever he's arguing with. it's really bizarre

[Gredival]

salodin does the exact same thing, he seems to realize it though eventually and then does this weird subject change or pivot while quoting whoever he's arguing with. it's really bizarre

Salo has never tried to use studies about vaccines causing autism as a way to discredit studies about the incidence of sexual assault.

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[Zealot]

If I may,

Hate speech and hate crimes are acts which would, in theory, not have occurred but for the hatred directed at a person or group as a result of some ethnic or religious background completely absent any other characteristic of the individual involved. Flipping someone off because you hate them as a person is not hate speech by the spirit in which it was intended, but flipping off someone because they're black and you hate black people as a group would be. Similarly, contrary to South Park's juvenile stance on hate crimes, there is a distinct difference between there just being an element of hate against an individual before committing a crime against them, and having no desire to commit the crime whatsoever but for some ethnic or religious trait of your victim that you hate.

Simply put, if I kick you in the groin because you're a shitgoblin who doesn't deserve intact testicles, that's mere battery. If I do it because you're Chinese and I hate how many of you there are and want to destroy your little swimmers before you can produce more yellow cockroaches, well my friend the judge will not take kindly to that at all.

[Fiye]

I will indeed miss the way NynJa used to lose arguments while thinking he won them :/ it was special

I won't because he'll do the same stuff in spam. Apparently he reported my post when I called him trash lmao.

[Salodin]

salodin does the exact same thing

Lol

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[Greatguardian]

No, it really isn't. You would just have to actually discuss and debate each individual case and not just have some simple generic rule for "This is hate, this is not". Some cases will be clearer than others.

This is the ideal. Get human moderators involved. Give them broad guidelines that are open to interpretation and allow them to apply the relevant cultural and social contexts. They'll make mistakes, and most social media platforms will grossly underfund and underman these departments, but they'll have a better track record than any automated process and won't be as subject to blatant manipulation as more strictly defined policies.

[Salodin]

Plus, people will actually have to detail why it is theyre concerned that one man spouting hate speech was removed from a platform. Cause no one here has clarified why it's a bad thing.

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[Eurell]

First they ban the racist 9/11 truther. Then they ban the liberals!

[Vandalhart]

Plus, people will actually have to detail why it is theyre concerned that one man spouting hate speech was removed from a platform. Cause no one here has clarified why it's a bad thing.

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Because the man banned wasn't spouting hate speech.
That aside, I don't care that Patreon did it, they are free to do what they want, but they are being inconsistent in the practice and that's a problem for everyone who use their service. As you said, if people are free to go elsewhere/create a service similar that helps, but Patreon has a large market share currently and they are going to lobby against any other service that pops up as competition.

[Greatguardian]

Because the man banned wasn't spouting hate speech.
That aside, I don't care that Patreon did it, they are free to do what they want, but they are being inconsistent in the practice and that's a problem for everyone who use their service. As you said, if people are free to go elsewhere/create a service similar that helps, but Patreon has a large market share currently and they are going to lobby against any other service that pops up as competition.

I prefer inconsistency in practice and the occasional bad ban to perfect consistency in practice that bad actors can adapt to and exploit. And I'm not sure we're talking about the same people if you're trying to suggest Carl Benjamin didn't get banned from Patreon for hate speech.

[Vandalhart]

I prefer inconsistency in practice and the occasional bad ban to perfect consistency in practice that bad actors can adapt to and exploit.

I'm not looking for perfect consistency, I'm looking for them to be unbiased in their practices, which would correct the inconsistency issue. They can ban whomever they want, but just because someone is on the "left" doesn't mean that everything they say is acceptable. I don't really know what the solution to the problem is, I just don't foresee what is happening to be in anyone's best interests in the long term.

And I'm not sure we're talking about the same people if you're trying to suggest Carl Benjamin didn't get banned from Patreon for hate speech.

As far as I see, he got banned for hate speech but I haven't heard anything I would constitute as hate speech to warrant the ban. Feel free to toss me a link, this has my interest so I will take the time to view/look at it. I would prefer something with full context but I will go ahead and investigate whatever you give me if it doesn't have that.

I have been listening to Benjamin for 2-3 years now and out of all his content, he may have said cringe/"spicy" things but I have yet to see him as some sort of hate speech spewing villain.

[Greatguardian]

I'm not looking for perfect consistency, I'm looking for them to be unbiased in their practices, which would correct the inconsistency issue. They can ban whomever they want, but just because someone is on the "left" doesn't mean that everything they say is acceptable. I don't really know what the solution to the problem is, I just don't foresee what is happening to be in anyone's best interests in the long term.

As far as I see, he got banned for hate speech but I haven't heard anything I would constitute as hate speech to warrant the ban. Feel free to toss me a link, this has my interest so I will take the time to view/look at it. I would prefer something with full context but I will go ahead and investigate whatever you give me if it doesn't have that.

I have been listening to Benjamin for 2-3 years now and out of all his content, he may have said cringe/"spicy" things but I have yet to see him as some sort of hate speech spewing villain.

I mean, you can go ahead and just read his Wikipedia page. It lays out a summary of what got him banned. I'm not going to quote him because the shit that got him banned on Patreon would get anyone banned on BG.

[Vandalhart]

I mean, you can go ahead and just read his Wikipedia page. It lays out a summary of what got him banned. I'm not going to quote him because the shit that got him banned on Patreon would get anyone banned on BG.

Patreon banned Benjamin in December 2018, when he was earning over US$12,000 a month. According to Patreon, Benjamin violated the site's rules on hate speech by using "racial and homophobic slurs to degrade another individual".[28] A number of users, including Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson, left the platform in protest of the ban of Benjamin and other right wing figures. Harris stated that he did not "share the politics of the banned members,", but objected to what he described as "political bias" on Patreon. In an effort to defend the ban, Patreon published a transcript of a YouTube video in which Benjamin stated that members of the alt-right were acting like "white <redacted>" because they were critical of him. [29] Benjamin said that he was using alt-right slang to attack them on their own terms, that Patreon ban was in fact trigerred by alt-right campaign against him, and that this was outside Patreon own site, which isn't included in their terms of use. [30]

I mean, if that's enough for you to go ahead and agree with Patreon that's fine. I don't agree with it if that's the only reason given. As I said, they're free to do what they want, and I'm sure he'll land on his feet. I just find it to be a bit concerning is all.

[Greatguardian]

I mean, if that's enough for you to go ahead and agree with Patreon that's fine. I don't agree with it if that's the only reason given. As I said, they're free to do what they want, and I'm sure he'll land on his feet. I just find it to be a bit concerning is all.

In December 2018 Benjamin was the object of a widely-publicized controversy, when he was banned from Patreon for saying some individuals on the alt-right were "acting like a bunch of redacted" and "redacted" because (in Benjamin's view) these people failed to speak and behave as white people should.

Yeah. That sounds about right. I don't think we need to evaluate every single incident on social media as if they were a basis for cultural precedent. You seem like a reasonable guy but imo you're too concerned with means and not sufficiently concerned with ends. Dude's a shock jock who got too shocky for Patreon and got slapped for it. Nothing of value was lost.

[Fiye]

Sargon of Akkad also got himself banned from twitter last year for what its worth.

If you want to know his politics I'd recommend the Rational Wiki entry on him. He's trash.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Sargon_of_Akkad

[Fiye]

lmao

[Melena]

I won't because he'll do the same stuff in spam. Apparently he reported my post when I called him trash lmao.

Yeah he was also bragging how he got me timed out for a week something like 5+ years ago as well. So much for that whole snitches get stitches schlock he’d sometimes try to play off

[Zetanio]

oh nooooo